Little Green Footballs

Saturday, August 05, 2006

Separated at Birth?

What do Wingnuts such as LGF and 'holy warriors' such as Hezbollah have in common? Well, quite a few things actually:

They both think the battle they are fighting is to the death;

They believe fundamentialist Islam is the be-all and end-all of Middle Eastern culture;

They have little regard for the lives of civilians, except to use as propaganda tools;

They exploit the fact that young men who have grown up under occupation and warfare are prepared to martyr themselves for an empty cause;

Their blind misanthropy leads them to ludicrous distortions of reality;

They are wholly unable to understand the 'other side's' point of view, much less engage it;

They lump everyone who doesn't agree with them together as one big amorphous 'enemy'

They despise international law, human rights, Enlightenment thought, pacifism, cross-cultural respect, the western media and progressive politics.

Hmmmm, could it be ....

18 comments:

MJ said...

Classic!

getalife said...

Wow, is that Charles?
I bet he is getting ready for the rapture like W:

He will not talk about the Iraq war and how the Shiites support Iran and Hezbolla.

skip sievert said...

Very good. This is getting at the real issues. The culprit is belief. The divide and conquer method is the favored one to control people. Confuse people with different belief systems. Then toss in a bunch nationalistic stuff. --- Why.? Not sure most of them know themselves. It has become mechanical. Uncreative. Brainwashed.

WW said...

Have you noticed that LGF has made it impossible to post comments if you're unregistered, and has disabled registration? Isn't it funny how the far-right-wing parades its devotion to "freedom" and then fails to implement it on their websites?

Anyway, the following quotes apply about both the Iraq War and Israel's invasion of Lebanon:

A Bright Shining Lie: John Paul Vann and America in Vietnam
By Neil Sheehan

"By the second decade after World War II, the dominant characteristics of the senior leadership of the American armed forces (WW's note: The following is a great description of Army Lawyer) had become professional arrogance, lack of imagination, and moral and intellectual insensitivity. These are the kinds of traits that cause otherwise intelligent men to behave stupidly. The attributes were the symptoms of an institutional illness that might most appropriately be called the disease of victory

"The attitudes had spread as well to the greater part of the political, academic and business leadership of the United States. ... American society had become a victim of its own achievement. The elite of America had become stupefied by too much money, too many material resources, too much power and too much success."

War Is A Force That Gives Us Meaning
By Chris Hedges

"Nationalist triumphalism was shunned and discredited in America after the Vietnam War. We were forced to see ourselves as others saw us, and it was not always pleasant. We understood, at least for a moment, the lie.

"But the plague of nationalism was resurrected during the Reagan years. It became ascendant with the Persian Gulf War, when we embraced the mythic and unachievable goal of a 'New World Order.'

"The infection of nationalism now lies unchecked and blindly accepted in the march we make as a nation towards another war, one as ill conceived as the war we lost in Southeast Asia."

blogagog said...

But the moonbats are much different. They believe:

Islamofascism can be ended with a few hugs and a chit-chat.

Islamic fundamentalism is extremely rare, despite the evidence.

If a civilian dies in a war, it is high time to surrender and run away.

They ignore the fact that young men who have not grown up under occupation or warfare are prepared to martyr themselves for an empty cause.

They can't spell misanthropy, but still call people who actually learns from history misanthropists.

They are completely able to appease the other side's murderous desire to conquer non-muslims.

They lump everyone who doesn't agree with them together as one big amorphous 'enemy'

They believe things like international law, the UN and pacifism can actually accomplish something.

blogagog said...

WW said...

Have you noticed that LGF has made it impossible to post comments if you're unregistered, and has disabled registration?

This one is even worse! You can't post anything no matter who you are unless the owner approves of it!

X said...

"But the moonbats are much different. They believe: Islamofascism can be ended with a few hugs and a chit-chat."

Not sure who you're refering to with 'moonbats', but this site certainly doesn't think so.

"Islamic fundamentalism is extremely rare, despite the evidence."

Depends what you mean by fundamentalism. If you're talking about people prepared to pick up arms to spread their religion, then yes, it's extremely rare.

"If a civilian dies in a war, it is high time to surrender and run away."

Nope. But it's high time to review your tactics if you find you're killing significant numbers of civilians on a regular basis - especially if you're killing more civilians than soldiers.

"They ignore the fact that young men who have not grown up under occupation or warfare are prepared to martyr themselves for an empty cause."

That's a good point, but we're talking about the situation in the Middle East here, not in Europe and the US

"They can't spell misanthropy, but still call people who actually learns from history misanthropists."

Unfortunately you and people like you only take what you want from history. Given the current crisis, perhaps a book on guerilla warfare might be useful. Just a thought...

"They are completely able to appease the other side's murderous desire to conquer non-muslims."

Appease? Clarify.

"They lump everyone who doesn't agree with them together as one big amorphous 'enemy'"

Nope, just the raving wingnuts.

"They believe things like international law, the UN and pacifism can actually accomplish something."

60s years of peace in Europe (Yugoslavia excepted), the independence of India, the overthrow of apartheid and Communism, and global cooperation in the fields of science, economics, environmentalism, sport, humanitarian aid and education seem like quite good arguments for prefering peaceful internationalism over egocentric warmongering, don't you think?

Jew 90 said...

Is it just me who feels a tad uneasy at somebody who is not Jewish making up cards calling Noam Chomsky a self-loathing Jew? I mean even if you disagree with his politics, for someone who doesn't share his ethnic background to suggest he's less of a Jew than others comes accross as....well....anti-Semitic. I can imagine what Charles would say if someone on Daily Kos accused anyone of being a self-loathing Jew.

MJ said...

"This one is even worse! You can't post anything no matter who you are unless the owner approves of it!"

Well if 'oh so' moral and upstanding Lizards from LGF weren't posting links to alleged child porn, racist epithets, spam and general crap on here LGFW would probably have a far more open comments section. Just a thought.

blogagog said...

"Not sure who you're refering to with 'moonbats', but this site certainly doesn't think so."

i.e. Koskids, Ms. Sheehan, Michael Moore, Howard Dean, Murtha, Reid, et. al.

"If you're talking about people prepared to pick up arms to spread their religion, then yes, it's extremely rare."

Where were you when the rioting and murdering was going on because millions of peace loving people disliked a cartoon? Millions = not rare.

"But it's high time to review your tactics if you find you're killing significant numbers of civilians on a regular basis - especially if you're killing more civilians than soldiers."

Every Hezbollah militant immediately becomes a civilian upon death, so there will always be more civilians dead than soldiers. If you doubt this, you really don't understand Hezbollah.

"Given the current crisis, perhaps a book on guerilla warfare might be useful. Just a thought..."

Excellent point. Guerilla warriors, if left alone inevitably grow stronger, and at least in Central America and Africa, can lead to the destruction of nations. Best to take them out earlier rather than later.

"Appease? Clarify."

It means to 'give in to demands'. Examples include giving free land to terrorists as done in Gaza and soon in the West Bank, refusing to run cartoons of Mohammed out of respect for muslims, but happily showing picture of Jesus in a bucket of pee, bugging out of Iraq because it's just too hard and suggesting a redeployment to Okinawa, allowing Iran to get nuclear arms because China and Russia say so. The list is almost endless.

They lump everyone who doesn't agree with them together as one big amorphous 'enemy'

"Nope, just the raving wingnuts."

Nope, that's just the wide-eyed moonbats.

"60s years of peace in Europe (Yugoslavia excepted), the independence of India, the overthrow of apartheid and Communism, and global cooperation in the fields of science, economics, environmentalism, sport, humanitarian aid and education seem like quite good arguments for prefering peaceful internationalism over egocentric warmongering, don't you think?"

60s years of peace in Europe (Yugoslavia excepted), the overthrow of the Serbian government, the overthrow of Communism, the democratization of Japan, Germany, the continued freedom of South Korea, Taiwan, and Kuwait make a strong case for why we should be prepared and willing to fight for ourselves and our friends to remain free, don't you think? Watching hundreds of thousands die in in Rwanda, Sudan, Cambodia, and the rest as we idly sat by only adds fuel to my argument.

I can't believe that you think communism was beaten with 'peace'! Heh.

It's interesting that each of your examples shows why it's beneficial for the west to stick together and face evil head on, carrying a big stick. Of course none of your examples have anything to do with the UN being beneficial to the world. In fact, if you took away the bribery, the child rape and the disregard of genocides in the world, the UN would do nothing at all!

blogagog said...

"Well if 'oh so' moral and upstanding Lizards from LGF weren't posting links to alleged child porn, racist epithets, spam and general crap on here LGFW would probably have a far more open comments section. Just a thought."

No doubt LGF's registration is closed for similar reasons.

MJ said...

"If you're talking about people prepared to pick up arms to spread their religion, then yes, it's extremely rare."

Where were you when the rioting and murdering was going on because millions of peace loving people disliked a cartoon? Millions = not rare.

Millions took up arms to spread their religion over the cartoon hysteria? Really? Can't remember that.

"But it's high time to review your tactics if you find you're killing significant numbers of civilians on a regular basis - especially if you're killing more civilians than soldiers."

Every Hezbollah militant immediately becomes a civilian upon death, so there will always be more civilians dead than soldiers. If you doubt this, you really don't understand Hezbollah.

That's bollocks not even the most ardent Israeli propagandists are willing to try

"60s years of peace in Europe (Yugoslavia excepted), the independence of India, the overthrow of apartheid and Communism, and global cooperation in the fields of science, economics, environmentalism, sport, humanitarian aid and education seem like quite good arguments for prefering peaceful internationalism over egocentric warmongering, don't you think?"

60s years of peace in Europe (Yugoslavia excepted), the overthrow of the Serbian government, the overthrow of Communism, the democratization of Japan, Germany, the continued freedom of South Korea, Taiwan, and Kuwait make a strong case for why we should be prepared and willing to fight for ourselves and our friends to remain free, don't you think? Watching hundreds of thousands die in in Rwanda, Sudan, Cambodia, and the rest as we idly sat by only adds fuel to my argument.

I can't believe that you think communism was beaten with 'peace'! Heh.

Well it certainly wasn't beaten by a invasion of the USSR was it

It's interesting that each of your examples shows why it's beneficial for the west to stick together and face evil head on, carrying a big stick. Of course none of your examples have anything to do with the UN being beneficial to the world. In fact, if you took away the bribery, the child rape and the disregard of genocides in the world, the UN would do nothing at all!

Of course none of your examples have anything to do with the US Army being beneficial to the world. In fact, if you took away the bribery, the child rape and the disregard of genocides in the world, the US Army would do nothing at all!

Oxford said...

Right-wing extremists believe:

If a few people are guilty then everyone in a hundred miles of the guilty must almost be punished, up to and including toture and death.

The foaming at the mouth fringe right uses the words Muslim and terrorists interchangeably, yet swear US tactics in the middle-east are not a religious war and that they believe in freedom of religion.

Fake patirots that sit behind fully loaded keyboards thinks that dead children are merely collateral damage. No One is innocent that is within firing range.

Wing-nuts are perfectly prepared to send your sons, daughters, husbands, and wives to die in a war based on lies and in a country that had nothing to do with 9-11. Like to watch people run and hide? Send an Army recruiter to the home of a College Republican.

Right-wingers have sworn victory is around the corner so many times they've invented a new definition of "corner". Donnie Rumsfeld couldn't manage a paper bag factory.

Poor decisions by the civilian leadership in Washington have put our military into wars it can't win - either on the battlefield, or in local hearts and minds.

Fringe conservatives are all too ready to appease totalitarian regimes as long as they do business with conservative special interests. In that sense Saddam just blew it by not joining the neocon country club.

Wing-nuts have taught the world a lesson in Iraq, if conservatives say they're coming to save you, run like hell before they kill you and your neighbor.

Wing-nuts despise patirotism, but love nationism and eliminationism. They see themselves as holier then thou and anything they do or say is above question. Those that question them are the enemy. American values, international law, respect for life, are all objects of contempt in conservative neocon world. They don't think they are losing in Iraq and Afghanistan because of their gross incompetence, but because liberals are keeping them from committing genocide.

blogagog said...

Here's an example of what the right really thinks about war. You will doubtless disagree with the story, but at least you will be able to understand where we are coming from.

skip sievert said...

To the person named Mr. Jew 90 in this commentary . In case you were not aware of it Judaism is a belief system. It has nothing to do with so called ethnicity. The original tribes were make up of cast offs from other groups and tribes that were absorbed. They were extremely diverse. The only time the Jews were somewhat isolated or ghettoised was for a short time in Europe.-- The majority of the people that call themselves Jews in Israel are of central Asian and southern Russian and eastern European descent ,if you want to use that term. - Their religion adopted in the 8th century on onward.- It is funny how most Jews do not know or care to know much history of their own people. I guess it interferes with their imagined history they have from the Bible. -I would add that Chomsky is a good example of false alternative thinking. He is a pawn for the powers that be. A wealthy man who is still accumulating vast wealth.- Think he wants real social change.? Like Amy Goodman , James Kunstler, and lots of others, these people offer not answers, but a confusing blend of what they call perhaps , ways to improve the status quo, system. They never get at the real problem which is our Price System. ----/ Any way the point I wanted to make to this person who feels uneasy about comments about Jews being made by non Jews is this. It is called free speech. Just by your saying that the Jews are a ethnic culture reveals you do not know much. Again it is a belief system. A pack of lies.like all religions , it is a way to control people with brainwashed concepts based on guilt. As far as Semites as you call them, that would be the group known as the Arabs, Egyptians, Jordanians, etc. - Even by your definitions the Jews are not Semites. I suggest you learn something about yourself. You are a believer in a religion. Only Hitler and his group considered the Jews an ethnic group. I hope you are not so ignorant to continue his way of presenting the Jews.-- Because the Jews believe in all the hate filled stories that they brain wash themselves and other with,the Christians, do not assume that these people are any thing other than believers in an abstract philosophy that is ultimately a destructive blight on the world. God`s chosen belief system.? Dream on. --- Lets drop the B.S. and create a better society, a secular humanistic one. We have it in our power to do that. The Chomsky`s of the world never get at the issues. They are to busy basking in the adulation of the pseudo-intellectuals.

X said...

Blogagog, to use your historical imagery, would it be ok for you if the Latino sailor had taken his anger out on the Marine's wife and kids, his relatives and his neighbors?

And what do you think would have happened if the Marine and some friends had been walking down a dark street one evening, months later, and come across the Latino sailor on his own?

You've got to think these things through.

blogagog said...

"would it be ok for you if the Latino sailor had taken his anger out on the Marine's wife and kids, his relatives and his neighbors?"

Of course not, but if he kept ducking behind his wife, she's probably get hit and it would be the marine's fault.

"And what do you think would have happened if the Marine and some friends had been walking down a dark street one evening, months later, and come across the Latino sailor on his own?"

I think he'd be afraid of the sailor, if the sailor hit him hard enough. That's the key to a permanent end to a problem, historically.

"You've got to think these things through."

Indeed. And don't forget to apply history to the situation! Try to count how many cease-fire/peace agreements led to more war. Try to count how many wars stopped with an unconditional surrender led to more wars. There's a powerful message for you if you do.

My comments are being blocked by your moderator, so I'm going to bow out of this website. I hope you all enjoy a long and happy life.

X said...

"if he kept ducking behind his wife, she's probably get hit and it would be the marine's fault."

You don't believe in peple taking direct responsibility for their actions, do you? There's always some excuse and reason to blame others.

"I think he'd be afraid of the sailor, if the sailor hit him hard enough. That's the key to a permanent end to a problem, historically."

More likely he'll take every opportunity to exert revenge on the sailor for his public beating.

"Try to count how many wars stopped with an unconditional surrender led to more wars."

World War I springs to mind...

"My comments are being blocked by your moderator, so I'm going to bow out of this website. I hope you all enjoy a long and happy life."

Thanks. I think 'delayed until approved' is the operative term.