Little Green Footballs

Friday, June 06, 2008

Do Lizards Just Ignore the Zappa Quotes?


I often wonder about the response of the LGFers to the daily quotes posted under "frank says" by Charles Johnson. I realize that I probably know the least of anyone posting here about Charles personally, but I am aware that he was a musician of some sort prior to his desire to start blogging daily about Islam (and whatever pleases his 'lizards'), and apparently remains a fan of Jazz as well as of Frank Zappa. (Please pardon my ignorance of Charles' early history here.)

What startles me is that Zappa was rather profuse not only as a musician and producer but also with books and sharing his political views from interviews to testimony to the U.S. Senate. That I remember well. According to the Wikipedia article on Zappa,

Zappa was a self-proclaimed "practical conservative", an avowed supporter of capitalism and independent business.[5] He was also a strident critic of mainstream education and organized religion.[6] Zappa was a forthright and passionate advocate for freedom of speech and the abolition of censorship, and his work embodied his skeptical view of established political processes and structures.


OK, discussions of the late musician's statements could lead one all over the map. Do they reflect Charles' views is more to the point, and what do the more right-wing lizards who would probably fall over at some of Zappa's more provocative statements and lyrics think when Charles posts his "frank says" segment at the bottom of the right sidebar? Many lizards are more of the Libertarian views politically, but the majority would probably view today's Zappa quote regarding Ronald Reagan winning the office of President of The U.S.A.?

Had he posted that quote in an open thread instead of one today from none other than Niccolo Machiavelli, there'd be mass outrage over the statement, as many at LGF are in the "deify Reagan" category. Do note the quote from Zappa's testimony against the PMRC in the segment on the Wiki page starting with "1980s". Typically Zappa, a very intelligent take on Tipper Gore's old terror of the '80s which was also provocative. He thrived on being provocative and stretching the limits, hence popularity of his books and the man himself among people who can really stand very little of his music.

So why do the lizards not get all up in arms over the more political Zappa quotes (They do change, if you reload LGF the quote will be different)? Just because "it's Charles' living room"? Or because Charles sticks them at the bottom of a sidebar? Which side of Charles Johnson is still in there? Anyone other than the guy who just overuses the "throwing so-and-so under the bus" analogy ad nauseum?

19 comments:

Tex Taylor said...

You guys and gals have a misperception about LGF.

The really good posters over, and there are many, aren't Charles' sycophants. They loathe most of you goats (like I do :)) but not for the reasons you think. I can tell you for a fact they think Charles a flake but like the material; Charles a religious bigot, but they like the immediate processing of the forum. You throw them in the same pot as the obvious butt kissers because they don't ruffle feathers in Charles' living room. Surely, you guys and gals would recognize why, being they like to remain amongst their friends.

LGF really is pretty diversified group I found with perhaps one common bond - the support for the state of Israel and a shared perception of its real enemies.

About Frank, good catch Lex and one I had not noticed in my time there. Zappa died at the grand of age of 53, more of a trainwreck than an icon, leaving behind a legacy of messed up children Moon, Dweezil, Ahmet Emuukha Rodan and Diva Thin Muffin Pigeen. In fact, if it weren't for folks like Charles, Zappa would now be like a fart in the wind and soon will be when Charles and Co pass. Frank's particular comment there sets him on a pedestal for being woefully wrong. Since I have now lived thru the entire decade of the 60s until today, I can guarantee the 80s was far and away the best of times in my life to live in America. And I am in the majority in that opinion as attested to by the both the popularity of Reagan's legacy and the love expressed at his passing. You won't see anything like that for our current crop of failures; either party.

But there were a few things about Zappa I had forgotten Lex: a self-proclaimed practical conservative, an avowed supporter of capitalism and independent business, a strident critic of mainstream education and organized religion. That is how Charles Johnson sees himself personified.

Enjoy your ride boys and girls. Obama may win, though he's a complete joke; if the Dimocratic party could save you, it already would have. In two years your worthless Congress has only made it worse. Your lives will not change on account of a feckless change in leadership, and in fact, I guess will get a whole lot worse.

I'll pull for McCain but think he too completely lame. America is going down, the world will follow our lead, and there's not a thing any of us can do about it. Because I am convinced honesty in leadership too rare a commodity; whether on Wall Street, corporations, politicals, or the spiritual realm.

And the good folks, left and right alike, will have nobody but themselves to blame.

Anonymous said...

I certainly had a lot of love for Reagan's passing. An extended descent into dementia followed by what hopefully was a miserable demise surrounded by people he could no longer remember. Alone in a room full of strangers. A fitting end for a man who pretended to honesty and bravery while he cut dirty backroom deals with narcotraffickers and terrorists, who spoke of freedom while he aided dictatorial thugs. Anyone who beatifies such a lying scumbag is either an honest fool or a dishonest monster.

Tex Taylor said...

anonymous,

I certainly had a lot of love for Reagan's passing. An extended descent into dementia followed by what hopefully was a miserable demise surrounded by people he could no longer remember. Alone in a room full of strangers. A fitting end for a man who pretended to honesty and bravery while he cut dirty backroom deals with narcotraffickers and terrorists, who spoke of freedom while he aided dictatorial thugs. Anyone who beatifies such a lying scumbag is either an honest fool or a dishonest monster.

You're no different than those rooting for Tony Snow and Ted Kennedy to die horrific deaths. A maggot and a coward, no redeeming qualities whatsoever, as attested by the anonymous moniker.

sharksandwich said...

"John Bolton takes Barack Obama to reality school: Obama the naive.

It’s in the Los Angeles Times, and I’m reluctant to link to them because of their overweening leftist bias, but this is a good op-ed."


Don't do it Charles! I'm sure their servers might explode if you send your legions of geriatric "minions" doddering into that den of elitist iniquity.

Lex said...

tex--one thing you're forgetting about me. I never spent much time at LGF, but registered after getting a mail that registration was open from Charles himself. Had that account right up until he banned Sphinx and I wrote requesting it to be closed. By then, of course, I was writing about LGF at another site and my main blog.

You either forget or don't realize though, I used to write for that side of things. Until I both realized the error of my ways and returned to my former political views as well as saw many writers from that side of things degenerate from being on the more human rights side of things to turning into complete bigots and falling into the trap of political self-identification. I've really never seen a group of people so quickly decide that they simply are going to be "conservatives", lock stock and barrel, abandoning some of their most long-held beliefs to be able to conform. I'm not talking here of just commenters, but of bloggers who get linked at LGF (and yes, I did used to get linked there, believe it or not, for all that you categorize me now, Tex.).

I know the reason that the lizards loathe me, it is because I started writing about the "counter-jihadis" having BEEN one of them. I'm considered the worst sort of traitor to them. As for the others here? I also know exactly how these people reason their hatred of "moonbats" and "libtards".

But back to Zappa. I have always respected him greatly. And remember, just as Zappa was a self-identified conservative in many areas, he was a shock artist (and hardly a train-wreck other than the cancer that killed him) and would say anything to get people to get emotional and rethink their opinions. He also would write his lyrics as such. The things he has said about Christianity alone would cause most lizards to also request account cancellation if they didn't prize their lgf accounts so much.

You're pretty damned funny though to think that Zappa owes any remembrance to the fact that Charles throws up quotes from him at LGF! HAHA! Not a musician are you, Tex? LOL.

OK, that may not explain the motives of others here, but got it straight regarding me yet Tex?

Tex Taylor said...

Lex,

As I wrote at Chen's, I think you flutter like a leaf in the wind and just one personal calamity will have you swaying in some direction - if you ever had one to begin with. Your personal testament as I have read it is so full of inconsistencies that I wouldn't know where to begin. And I am supposed to look to you as example of direction? You're more something off the Dr. Phil show.

I don't have to know Frank Zappa was a buffoon - I only have to look at his legacy. And yes, it is a trainwreck and something worthy of a clown. If that's your idea of a talented musician, well all I've got to say is our tastes are very different. But it doesn't surprise me you would find Frank worthy of admiration because I find you the mirror image of C.J.

I know nothing of your time at LGF, nor do I need to. Like I said, I don't dislike you but I do like to tweak you as someone that finds herself just a little brighter, a little more wholesome, a little more worldly than the rest of us.

Tex Taylor said...

Oh, and Lex since you know nothing of me, it might be important to note one thing about me, whether for good or for evil.

9/11 did not change me, nor have fickle bloggers. All 9/11 did was reinforce exactly what I already knew.

Anonymous said...

I can understand how someone might enjoy mixing Zappa's music into their playlist once in a while. I wouldn't, but I can understand how someone might. But how anyone could say they "admire him greatly"--that I can't follow. Really, he was no great genius either in music or in the caliber of his thought. He remained in a permanent state of adolescence, believing that "shock value" was sufficient motivation for art.

There is one thing that always gives Zappa's type away: the one person whom they never believe needs to be shocked out of his sensibilities is himself.

Rico

Sharksandwich said...

"Obama Campaign Throws Another Blog Down the Memory Hole
Sun, Jun 8, 2008 at 2:48:08 pm PDT

Yes, away goes another embarrassing post, down the memory hole to join so many others with no explanation: Barack Obama : : Change We Can Believe In | Invalid URL."


Ummmmm, Charles? Do you ever delete any comments on your site?

Anonymous said...

You're no different than those rooting for Tony Snow and Ted Kennedy to die horrific deaths. A maggot and a coward, no redeeming qualities whatsoever, as attested by the anonymous moniker.

Ooooh, I can almost hear the harsh growl when you type that and it's got me quaking in my boots. You're gonna hurt my little feelins if you keep up that kind of talk. Goodie for you, you use your real name on the internets. Sally forth, brave keyboard commando, and hide not your face from the depraved leftist masses. I'm sure some other armchair warrior somewhere will be emboldened by your boldness in openly inviting people to type angrily at you while using your actual name.

Reagan exported death and terror to other nations while he fooled rubes like you with his phony "straight talk" act and his hollow invocations of "freedom and liberty". It's funny, people like you will start screaming "CUT AND RUN! CUT AND RUN!" when a Democrat calls for a troop withdrawl from Iraq while conveniently forgetting how Reagan cut and ran after we lost 220 Marines in Lebanon back in '83. Some of us remember shit like that instead of deluding ourselves that Reagan was some kind of superhero patriot.

And honestly, comparing Reagan to a feckless boob like Ted Kennedy is like comparing a malignant tumor to a skin rash. Kennedy was directly responsible for the death of one innocent person in a car accident because of his carelessness and callousness. Reagan was directly responsible for the deaths of thousands through his careless and callous support of any scumbag psycho who called himself "anti-communist" and managed to beat their citizens into remaining quiet while the United States government used them in its proxy wars against the equally careless and callous Soviet Union. He didn't just have blood on his hands, he practically bathed in it; whether he believed such bloodshed was truly necessary for the cause of "freedom and liberty" or he was just another political monster seeking more power and influence for his nation, the dead aren't somehow less dead. They're not sanctified by Reagan's holy writ. They don't lie quieter in their graves knowing that Ronald Reagan sacrificed them for the greater good.

Of course I do admit that I get an awful lot of amusement out of the rabid spluttering provoked whenever I speak ill of Saint Ronnie to his faithful worshippers. Must be doubly frustrating when you can't even put a name to your hate. But I guess you're not the only one who likes to give people a little tweak.

(side note to the blog owner, if I've multiple posted this comment, apologies, Blogger seems to be acting a bit oddly)

Tex Taylor said...

Feckless anon,

Ooooh, I can almost hear the harsh growl when you type that and it's got me quaking in my boots. You're gonna hurt my little feelins if you keep up that kind of talk.

Oh, I wouldn't flatter myself too much Anon. Probably some slacker who got burned when St. Ronnie broke your union, and your empty bank account and maxed out Visa card is all you've got to show for your troubles.

Your type always crash and burn in the end and the world won't even notice. I was simply pointing the fact that you're a coward with no redeeming qualities, left or right. There's a million of your type cuffing themselves while perusing thru the blogosphere.

Tex Taylor said...

Of course I do admit that I get an awful lot of amusement out of the rabid spluttering provoked whenever I speak ill of Saint Ronnie to his faithful worshippers. Must be doubly frustrating when you can't even put a name to your hate. But I guess you're not the only one who likes to give people a little tweak.

You're right...why bother with a anonymous hatemongering rube like you? The fact that St. Ronnie is one of the two most popular Presidents of the 20th century, added to the fact he obviously gouged you personally (I hope in the most painful of ways) is justice enough for me.

Apparently, as indicated by your anonymously ignorant posts, justice still prevails...

Anonymous said...

Oh man, you just keep getting funnier and funnier. I love the computer chair psychoanalyst bit. Busted union, empty bank account, maxed-out credit cards, trying to cover all the possibles and somehow missing all the obvious ones. So many shots and all in the dark.

Your type always crash and burn in the end and the world won't even notice. I was simply pointing the fact that you're a coward with no redeeming qualities, left or right. There's a million of your type cuffing themselves while perusing thru the blogosphere.

Of course I couldn't possibly hold a candle to a brave and special little snowflake like yourself. In the greater scheme of things you're obviously far more important than some anonymous hatemonger like me and your wisdom will surely be inscribed on the pages of history.

Or more likely, in ten or twenty years, no one'll know or care who the hell you are or what you've said any more than they will about me.

Seriously, get over yourself man. You're on a blog, you're not a network news anchor. You're not a celebrated author. Like 99% of the internet, you're someone who has something to say and this is where you're doing it. Like an unfortunate majority of that 99%, you seem to believe that your something to say is of greater weight and importance than anyone else. You got tripped up by somebody who pushed one of your buttons and now you're trying to cover it up with a lot of amateur psychological profiling with a light sprinkling of "You're not worth the time to respond to which is why I'm responding, to tell you how much you're not worth the time to respond to". It's a lot like the wingnuts who spend all their time on left-wing irc channels or blogs so they can tell any and all who'll listen that they're powerless and insignificant, which is why someone went through all the trouble to find them and tell them that. If you feel the need to tell someone how ultimately unimportant they are, you pretty much contradict yourself right out of the gate.

I think I see why they keep you around here. You're good for a laugh. What's really funny is that my initial posting as anonymous was an accident while I was tabbing down the page after finishing my first post and I couldn't help but stick with it after seeing your ridiculous barroom posturing in response. See you around, brave keyboard warrior of justice.

Tex Taylor said...

Anon,

I stopped by just to see if the anonymous cowardly lion had responded. And much to my delight, you had. You don't disappoint. You read like the gawd awful legalize and his respective juvenile humor.

I can't answer why LGF Watch keeps me around. Only the blog masters know. I suppose there is a grain of truth in what they read of my screed - that is, there is either a curiosity factor, they find it amusing, or maybe like me they simply like debate. Occasionally, I do find myself shaking my head in agreement with some posted here. It is afterall, as you attest, only a matter of opinion.

And after 10 or 20 years, I am equally sure than other than family and friends, I will be of little importance. I have never been anything else, nor have I ever claimed anything of great consequence. Just a little messenger boy as you say.

What I do know is this. As indicated by the crass content of your very first post, I knew all I need to know about the content of your character. That is, you're a pathetic and obviously disturbed individual. And now I can add that I was right about St. Ronnie. If he irritated your ilk, he must have been even better than I thought before this conversation first started.

In this case, your opinion is in the minority. It was afterall, you who first called him St. Ronnie; his overwhelming popularity well earned...as apparently you fiddled and burned.

skeptic said...

Many lizards are more of the Libertarian views politically

No they aren't. They call themselves "Libertarian" because they think its cool but don't have a clue what it actually means.

The founding principle of Libertarianism is non-initiation of force, for one thing. Not "strike first," not "nuke mecca," but violence ONLY in self-defense.

If nothing else their rabid hatred of Ron Paul (a genuine libertarian) shows exactly where most "lizards" stand on actual principles of liberty.

They aren't libertarians, they're neo-conservative jacobins and trotskyites.

Lex said...

Tex, the sad thing is that if we ever sat down for a chat you'd probably not dislike me at all. Online, however, you give few people the benefit of the doubt. No doubt you see anyone willing to submit their own beliefs and political ideology to more rigorous analysis and therefore growth as "fence-sitters". I hope that isn't the case, as I truly do despise such black/white views of the world and its inhabitants.

No Tex, I don't change my views and "flutter" over any "personal calamity". I research constantly, I'm just hit at this point by a very serious medical condition. Any perceived inconsistencies I try to explain to the point of making my posts far too lengthy as well as my responses. I do fail to see how an entire worldview stemming from very rigorously though out and researched beliefs seems "inconsistent" merely because this doesn't fit into previously named political identifications.

As for Zappa, yes, we probably have different tastes Tex, and you're probably not a musician either. Just as I respect David Lynch as a filmmaker, I still cannot stand to watch his films. Same with most Zappa, though not loving to listen to his works constantly would not bar any musician from seeing his immense talent. Then again, many of the world's greatest artists died as "train wrecks" as you'd classify it; one's art and life don't always add up, just look at W.A. Mozart. And just FYI, I do change seamlessly from The Stooges to Hank Sr. to Doc Watson to Bauhaus to Bowie without much looking down on the musical tastes of others. I do tend to see those who are not musicians yet close-minded to the music of others as dilletantish arrogance.

Me like Charles? Huh. I gave up a rather huge readership because I wasn't willing to keep certain more socially conservative readers happy. I see Charles as rather stuck in what he does, especially considering his inconsistencies. I do agree that the LGFers are a very diversified group with a few common bonds. The majority of hatred of the 'lizards', however, can be found in more vitriolic form not here but at blogs full of the more radical and quite racist folks Charles threw out of LGF, frankly. The criticisms are quite different from those here, but far more vicious.

Regardless, I'll stay on and all, I'm just a bit too ill to keep up with most blogs or even comments these days, all apologies.

Tex Taylor said...

Lex,

I came in hoping Mr. Anon had posted and see that you had instead.

Tex, the sad thing is that if we ever sat down for a chat you'd probably not dislike me at all.

I know. That is what I said in my previous post before...Like I said, I don't dislike you but...

As for Zappa, yes, we probably have different tastes Tex, and you're probably not a musician either.

Not a professional one. But with a mother that has taught piano for 50 years, don't think I wasn't forced to spend my fair share of time at the keys. Both my daughters play. However, I wasn't going to make it as a concert pianist either.

Your analogy of Mozart is puzzling. While his life was a trainwreck I suppose from what I've read, I don't see that he has much else in common with Zappa. For one, Mozart had something all geniuses have that Zappa completely lacked: (talent). Zappa was nothing but a shock jock; Howard Stern lite.

I research constantly, I'm just hit at this point by a very serious medical condition.

I am truly sorry about your sickness. Unlike the awful poster I have been arguing with, I don't wish that on people.

If you don't find what your looking for, perhaps I can help. Being in medical school as a second career, I do have a world of expertise at my finger tips, including one of the most renown pathologists in the world.

If you have a medical question your not finding satisfactory answers for, tell Chenzhen to get in touch with me. He knows where to find me and I would like to help if I could. It's why I changed careers.

Anonymous said...

I've just stumbled upon this post, and am greatly srprised the ignorance contained on this page.

"For one, Mozart had something all geniuses have that Zappa completely lacked: (talent)."

Are you serious? Zappa was the most talented composer of the twentieth century. It's not all perverted middle school humor, the layer contained within Zappa's composition are unheard of. He was a revolutionary, and while his music didn't appeal to the masses, does that mean it wasn't genius? How many months did Zappa reign at the top of the Classical Charts?

So you may not like his music. Big deal, that's a matter of opinion. In fact most people don't like his music, but to say he had no talent? sheer ignorance.

Anonymous said...

I also stumbled on this page... although I am sick of Zappa being co-opted by the Right wingers (he spent his career ruthlessly trashing the Republican Party, was a registered Democrat, and his wife is a Dem delegate in CA), he was an issues person and can't be pinned down to a particular ideology...

That being said, whether or not you LIKE his music, opinions, aesthetic, etc. is besides the point.

I will say this with absolutely no disrespect, no intent of cruelty, or judgment, merely FACT :

Anyone who seriously considers and is exposed to the vast and dynamic catalog of (artistic and otherwise) accomplishments of Frank Zappa cannot say that he does not have talent (whether taken from the creative or technical elements of what he has done). This statement is just absolutely ignorant and uninformed.

And I am curious as to where one gets off calling Zappa's life a "train wreck"... his kids seem like the most well adjusted brood ever to come out of Hollywood.