Defending the indefensible

Paul Belien, Pamela Geller Oshry and assorted bloggers involved are trying desperately to shed Vlaams Belang and other participants of Bigotpalooza of their fascist pasts. Here's a reminder of what Vlaams Belang and their leaders support and the people they admire. No matter how they spin their new found philo-semitism they are rooted in their fascist past and surprisingly unwilling to exorcise it.

'A true idealist' is the title of a page-size interview with Bert van Boghout (1916-2003) in the VB magazine of march 1990. More correct would have been 'A true national-socialist' because Van Boghout was not just a collaborator: kreisleiter of the National-Socialist Movement in Flanders, active in the antisemite 'Volksverwering' who strove for a pure Arian Flanders by, among other things, publishing lists of Jews and freemasons, a Waffen SS volunteer at the east front, convicted to a life sentence after the war, later one of the founders of the Vlaams Blok and a distributor, until late in the 1980's through the Were Di bookservice, of German nazi literature and "historic-documentary long play records" such as 'Das Vaterland ruft' and the very pedagogic 'Wie gewinne ich eine Wahl?', with speeches of Joseph Goebbels and Adolf Hitler at the election congress of the NSDA in 1938. The author of the tribute in the VB party magazine: Filip Dewinter.

[...]

About Staf De Clercq (1884-1942), the much hated (by the Flemish people) leader of the Vlaams Nationaal Verbond (VNV), who collaborated enthousiasticly with the nazis, Dewinter says in Haaretz: "He is one of the historic leaders of the party. This is part of the history of the Flemish nationalist movement and it is impossible to deny this. We are the descendants of this movement."

This is the same Filip Dewinter who is speaking at Bigotpalooza and Pammycakes and other racist cranks are trying to defend.

In this regard we congratulate Charles Johnson for his, albeit belated, stand against these bigots.

UPDATE: Charles has more on Vlaams Belang and the Swedish neo-Nazis. Again, no matter how much LGFW criticises Charles for fostering bigotry and hatred on his site he has to be applauded for his stance on this issue.

It's déjà vu all over again

Bruce Bawer via LGF, today:

The other day, in the wake of my City Journal piece “Heirs to Fortuyn?”, a couple of anti-jihad writers who had not yet rebuked me for my stance on Vlaams Belang finally got around to doing so. Not only did they send me e-mails taking me to task for criticizing VB in that article; one of them also took it upon himself to chew me out for, in his view, admiring Pim Fortuyn too much and Geert Wilders too little. (Never mind that I’ve defended Wilders frequently and that Wilders has blurbed my new book, Surrender.) Wilders, this individual felt compelled to lecture me, is a far greater figure than Fortuyn ever was. Why? Because, he explained, Wilders stands for “Western values,” while Fortuyn stood only for – get ready for this – “Dutch libertinism.”

Yes, “Dutch libertinism.” The words took my breath away. During the last few days (while, as it happened, I was visiting Amsterdam) I haven’t been able to get them out of my mind. For a self-styled anti-jihadist – who, by the way, I first met three years ago at the Pim Fortuyn Memorial Conference in The Hague – to refer in this way to a man who sacrificed his life for human liberty is, in my view, not only incomprehensible but profoundly despicable. This is, after all, precisely the sort of language that Dutch Muslim leaders hurled at Fortuyn during his lifetime. And in the present case the words were plainly aimed not only at Fortuyn but at me – a writer who, like Fortuyn, that great martyr for freedom, is gay.

What the hell, one is entitled to wonder, is going on here? Why has Vlaams Belang, of all things, become a veritable sacred cow for so many anti-jihadist writers? And why does at least one of them now take such a staggeringly contemptuous view of Pim Fortuyn? I can’t honestly say that I understand any of it. But I do know this: when writers who represent themselves as champions of liberty start cozying up to distinctly illiberal parties like Vlaams Belang – and when one of those supposed champions of liberty starts to sound uncomfortably like the Islamist enemies of freedom whom he purports to despise – then there’s something terribly wrong, and genuinely evil, afoot.

LGF Watch, more than three years ago:

Shorter Paul Belien

"The only possible alternative to Islamo-fascism is Christo-fascism."

This piece of lunatic drivel scores extra-high on the Irony-Meter thanks to this bit in its last paragraph:

We have seen the assassinations of Pim Fortuyn and Theo van Gogh

Pim Fortuyn was a proud, promiscuous homosexual.

Theo van Gogh despised all religions, and was an ardent admirer of Fortuyn.

But according to Bible-bashers like Belien and his fascist friends, secularism, abortion and "hedonism" (a code word for sexual tolerance) are destroying Europe and paving the way for an Islamist takeover.

I don't think either van Gogh or Fortuyn would agree.

(note: Paul Belien is the publisher of the Brussels Journal, and has close ties to Vlaams Belang.)

More (from us, of course) on Vlaams Belang

Charles (indirectly) endorses murderous racists

Charles Johnson should know he's playing with fire every time he tries to smear someone by pronouncing them guilty through association (his latest example is particularly ridiculous as it's actually a completely one-way relationship he's highlighting).

If Charles is going to take that line then perhaps he'd better get his house in order first. You see, the other day a teenager in Belgium was found guilty of double murder. The teenager was the son of a Vlaams Blok founder and Vlaams Belang politician - both parties endorsed by Charles.

So, by CJ's own logic, he's endorsing racist murderers and their ideological (and biological) parents. Nice!

Charles Johnson explaining fascism

Senior political analyst Charles Johnson has managed to shoot himself in the proverbial foot yet once more. It all started when he underlined his firm refusal to align himself with fascist organizations from Europe, such as Vlaams Belang et al., by posting in which respect they are by definition fascists. [link: http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/31912_What_is_Fascism]. A stance LGF Watch has applauded him for, only to get a "F*** you" in return from the classy lizard tyrant, by the way [http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/27674 , comment #299].

Anyhoo, let's look at the points that Chuckles has posted and figure out why this counts as an own goal in some respects..

The correlation between these points, the tactics and positions of the Vlaams Belang, and the rationalizations of the “anti-Islamization” groups who are making alliances with them, is simply stunning.

* a sense of overwhelming crisis beyond the reach of any traditional solutions; [Check]

* the primacy of the group, toward which one has duties superior to every right, whether individual or universal, and the subordination of the individual to it; [Like the lizard's right to agree, and their solemn duty to shove their dissent up their green scaly derrieres..]

* the belief that one’s group is a victim, a sentiment that justifies any action, without legal or moral limits, against its enemies, both internal and external; [Let's see.. Oh, here's one]

* dread of the group’s decline under the corrosive effects of individualistic liberalism, class conflict, and alien influences; [Also the damage of different opinions and intellectual arguments. Evidence found here]

* the need for closer integration of a purer community, by consent if possible [Closely monitored registration times..], or by exclusionary violence if necessary; [.. and bannings galore. Yup.]

* the need for authority by natural chiefs (always male), culminating in a national chieftain who alone is capable of incarnating the group’s historical destiny; [Need I say anything?]

* the superiority of the leader’s instincts over abstract and universal reason; [Uh huh..]

* the beauty of violence and efficacy of will, when they are devoted to the group’s success [Check]

So is Charles Johnson a fascist? Probably not, however sometimes methinks he doesn't notice how his monstrosity of a blog - along with his bootlicking fanbase - is oddly similar to a little pathetic fascist circle.

Charles, Web Awards and Whining

(what left?!?!)
(hat-tip: LGF II) Oh, man is the web's competing narcissist (Baron is certainly in a dead heat, to name just one) whining about this one. Of course, being Charles Johnson, he deigns to remind us that we and others are in fact the whiners. Actually, he's not really talking much about us at all, but still:

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/31939_Censored_Yet_Somehow_Still_Whining

Yes, you read that title right. He cannot stop people from 'whining' about being banned by him from his little echo chamber and therefore it's pickin' time. (For the record, I was never banned but emailed Charles to have my account removed in response to the banning at LGF of The Sphinx, also of this blog.)

People banned from LGF for supporting fascists and/or being hostile obsessive jerks whine endlessly about being “censored” (with no sense of irony whatsoever) as the Infidel Blogger Awards nominates me for “Biggest Pro-Censorship Ass-Hat.” Apparently, speaking out against Eurofascists, and not letting the LGF comments pages turn into a racist cesspool makes me as bad as or worse than the Canadian Human Rights Commission and Mohammed Elmasry, in their strange little world of “anti-jihad” make believe.

In Charles-speak, this means he's angry. Now back to regularly scheduled comments:

PISSED 11/18/08 8:34:53 am reply quote 19

Good morning Charles,
Last time I checked, this was YOUR blog... no one else.. you do what you want
if they don't like it start their own or read somewhere else. Easier choices as far as I can tell.


To ANGER a Conservative tell him a lie, To ANGER a liberal tell him the TRUTH.

Ooh! I hope that's the British version of "PISSED" and not just the whiny American one....

Charles 11/18/08 8:43:46 am reply quote 8

re: #22 Ayatollah Ghilmeini

As I have always said, Charles, it is your house and you have right to run it as you see fit.

I guess insolvable internet arguments are inevitable but absent racism, I am not sure I would ever bounce anyone. I am not sure I care if you patch up with Atlas but Spencer, who should now be chagrined at Vlaams true colors has been fighting the right fight. Sometimes a little tough love is better than breaking bridges.

Reaganite come home!

After the way Spencer has behaved (I really didn't expect him to be as malicious as he's been), and with the statements he's made recently, that's extremely unlikely.

Honorary Yooper 11/18/08 8:47:25 am reply quote 7

re: #19 mph

Spencer is the run away winner for the "Best Infidel Blogger"

There you go.

Which means that they havwe given fully into the ideology of the jihadists, that of fascism. These fools think that you can fight fascism with fascism. When one wins though, all one is left with is a variant of fascism, not the freedom we so richly desire. And by allying with these fascists, all they do is give the socialist enablers more ammunition to claim the anti-jihad is a racist endeavor.

Spencer, Dymphna, Bodissey, I'm looking directly at you. You fools. You think that allying with these fascists is the right thing to do? Don't you remember what these folks' ideological ancestors did in Europe? You fools.

Charles, keep on doing the right thing and oppose this craziness. Regardless of what they may think of your work, we lizardoids believe you are on the correct path. Thank you.

That may just be the quote of the YEAR. Way to go Yooper! Other than the "correct path" bit and all.

Killgore Trout 11/18/08 8:53:52 am reply quote 6

re: #48 WrathofG-d

According to the idiots at LGF2, I run Bartertown.

What, Killgore doesn't read this site?

113 Charles 11/18/08 9:01:11 am reply quote 18

Some of those people posting comments over there seem to think it's their way to speak directly to me, and let me know how much they still hate me. What a sad way to live, so totally hung up on one person's opinion of you.

And to sum up:

239 Iron Fist 11/18/08 9:23:31 am reply quote 2

re: #152 Dianna

Hooray for us! Everybody else can go fuck themselves.

The echo is deafening!

Charles and Pamela Geller Are At it Again!

From:
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/32414_Atlas_Shrugs_Pamela_Geller_Calls_for_Me_to_
Be_Publicly_Flogged

Atlas Shrugs' Pamela Geller Calls for Me to Be 'Publicly Flogged'

Blogosphere | Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 8:08:22 am PST

In yet another post praising the European neofascist group Vlaams Belang, Pamela Geller reveals that she wants me publicly flogged, and I’m fairly sure she’s serious.

Since this is coming from the shrieking lunatic who thinks Barack Obama is the love child of Malcolm X, I guess I should take it as a compliment. Stay as classy as you are, Pamela!

Comments are rather hilarious and still incoming. Run on over and take a look at the mayhem. And someone please tell me Pamela did this as a stunt for blog traffic. Please.

Bigotpalooza

True to form (in the form of a one line blog post) Charles publicises movement of European resistance to Islamization (in the form of a link to the Gates of Vienna blog). He later adds an update stating that some of the supporters of this effort are less than honorable.

No shit!

One of the groups he specifically mentions is Vlaams Belang. Now where have we heard that name before?

The main source of this 'resistance' is here. And here are some of the 'big names'.

Austria: Elizabeth Sabaditsch-Wolff
Belgium: Filip Dewinter
Czech Republic: Matyas Zmo
Denmark: Lars Hedegaard
France: Nidra Poller
Germany: Stefan Herre
Italy: Adriana Bolchini Gaigher
Netherlands: Dr. Johannes J.G. Jansen
Norway: Jens Anfindsen
Romania: Traian Ungureanu
Sweden: Ted Ekeroth and Reinhard
Switzerland: Dr. Arnaud Dotezac
United Kingdom: Gerard Batten

If that's the resistance we all know what to expect. Right-wing hot air, barely disguised bigotry and in some cases outright race hatred.

Where was Charles Johnson's invite?

Happy Halloween!

At the risk of veering ever-so-slightly off-topic, today brings the happy news that the notorious Christo-fascist hatemonger Fred "God Hates Fags" Phelps and his so-called Westboro Baptist Church have had a $2.9 million lawsuit slapped against them. A jury found them "liable for invasion of privacy and intent to inflict emotional distress for picketing [a] Marine's funeral in 2006."

And those are just the compensatory damages; punitive damages are yet to be decided.

First-Amendment absolutists will deplore this decision, as will looney libertarians of the Ron Paul ilk (oop, guess one of us just took sides... Hi, Branch Paulians!), but among those cheering it today are left-wing gay-rights advocates, right-wing pro-military groups like the Patriot Guards, and a wide variety of other decent human beings from various political backgrounds.

And, as much as it pains us to admit it, on this issue we are once again on the same side as LGF, which has bashed Phelps repeatedly (though not without some static from his Christo-fascist admirers).

First we agree on Vlaams Belang, and now this. Will this madness never end?!

Memories

Memories
Like the corners of my mind
Misty watercolor memories
Of the way we were
Scattered pictures
Of the smiles we left behind
Smiles we gave to one another
For the way we were

Let's not forget that despite his current worries about Vlaams Belang, Charles Johnson was quite happy to promote them and his 'lizards' were quite clear on defending him from accusations of far-right extremism.

Arf!

While perusing the LGF front page earlier today, our eagle eye noticed that a person referring to him- or herself as "Bottehond" had posted a comment. This piqued our interest, what with "Bottehond" being a Dutch word and all (literal translation: "Bone Dog"), so we did a bit of digging.

And found this -- a pro-Vlaams-Belang article posted on a website to which a person referring to him- or herself as "Bottehond" also contributes.

It's unknown whether these two "Bottehonden" are one and the same, but be that as it may, we thought you might enjoy reading an excerpt, hastily translated from the Dutch, from the aforementioned article:

People of European descent who draw the Celtic cross or have a picture of it are, in [Charles] Johnson's eyes, filthy "racists." People who state that Europe was white and must stay white are, in Johnson's eyes, nothing more and nothing less than direct descendants of Adolf Hitler. People who believe that their fathers and grandfathers were wrong in supporting or ignoring the goals of the aforementioned Adolf Hitler, but who nonetheless honor these fathers and grandfathers because they did what they did for their people, for their religion, for their traditions, for Flemish independence -- that is something Johnson has never heard of, nor does he want to.

Charles Johnson sees the world in black and white; there is only absolute good and absolute evil. Johnson is never wrong and can never treat the enemy of his enemy as a friend. Johnson lives in a country whose original inhabitants were wiped from the map and has no problem with such a scenario repeating itself in other countries. Johnson dislikes symbols, and especially crosses, even though these fit in well with his hatred of Islam. Johnson can't deal with political incorrectness, even though it fits in well with his own form of political correctness. Johnson believes that the entire world should be like his dream vision of the United States: multiracial, but free of Islamists; with freedom of opinion, but not for those who disagree with him; multicultural, but with no room for other modes of thought besides his own economic and ethical liberalism and his atheism.

It goes on for quite a bit, but you get the idea.

Memo to Charles: adding hundreds of new "hatchlings" per day in a desperate attempt to boost your traffic rankings is a swell idea, but do you really know who they are?

Woof!

Charles has noticed that his new commenter "bottehond"* is, in fact, a Vlaams Belang apologist.

Well, duh.

*which, per Mr. Hond himself, means "blunt dog" and not "bone dog" or "dog bone" (as we and Charles, respectively, thought).

Charles Says It Will Never Be Over, NEVER!!

Hat-tip to Jeppo for this one. I am posting only part of this here for brevity, the rest is at Gates of Vienna Vs. The World Vs. LGF:


Hat-tip to Jeppo on this one:
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/32562_Atlas_Shrugs_Pamela_Geller_
Suddenly_Outraged_About_Flogging

I'm really starting to think that they're fighting just for our benefit. Sphinx, is this all just to amuse us? Can't be....OK, readers might remember the call by Pamela Geller for Charles Johnson to be publicly flogged as well as the ensuing mayhem over this post at LGF. It appears that Pamela has a case of subjective outrage (actually it's a rather advanced case, this is merely one episode being pointed out by Charles here):

And speaking of bloggers who are pushing the fascist agenda, Pamela Geller posted something on Saturday, outraged about a sheikh who called for Geert Wilders to be “flogged.”

Remember, this is the woman who recently called for me to be “publicly flogged,” because I won’t sign up with the fascists she’s shilling for, particularly the Belgian Vlaams Belang.

And now, she has deleted the post about Geert Wilders, obviously realizing that it made her look like an addled hypocrite.

Ooops, pardon me for missing the post at AS folks, back to Chuck now:

Here’s the Google cache of the page that’s no longer on her blog: Atlas Shrugs: New York Sheikh Khalid Yasin in speech in Holland: Wilders must be flogged.

Well, is it hate speech? Here’s Geller wishing the same fate upon me; should she be prosecuted?

Wow, how long did Charles mine Atlas Shrugs for any little bit he could call her on for the "flogging" comment? Speaking of comments, the lizards' obliging anti-Pamela comments are really quite amusing, though not as much as the caption contest in the post below;)

Charles Vs. Geert Wilders (and friends)

Wow, Chuckles must be reading my blog since he banned my IP address because this post is almost word for word what I've been saying about the Geert Wilders fiasco:

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/32732_Dutch_MP_Barred_from_Entering_Britain/comments/

(You'll probably have to cut and paste that one, I'm pretty sure he's blocked all of my links as well.)
Hat-tip: Jeppo

Dutch MP Barred from Entering Britain

World | Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 3:23:15 pm PST

Anti-Islam Dutch MP Geert Wilders has been barred from entering Britain, after a protest was lodged by Muslim House of Lords member Nazir Ahmed.

Yes, it’s a disgrace. Geert Wilders has the same right to free speech as anyone else, and the government of Britain is demonstrating once again that they’ve completely lost their way in a maze of multicultural contradictions.

However, Wilders himself does not deserve to be called an icon of free speech, since he explicitly wants to ban the Koran and make Islam illegal in Europe; in other words, he wants to take away other people’s freedom of speech and freedom of religion, and that is simply wrong. Book banning is what totalitarians do, not believers in free speech.

Also note that Wilders has recently announced he plans to form an alliance with the neofascist Belgian party Vlaams Belang.

So while I denounce Britain’s decision, I can’t support Wilders either while he maintains these positions and associations. Britain is wrong, and Wilders is also wrong. It’s a bad situation all around.

(Bold my emphasis, and truly, isn't this what I've been busy posting on? Maybe Spencer and Pamela Atlas will get the message now that its on LGF.)

Here's Sharmuta being utterly hilarious:

31 Sharmuta 2/10/09 3:33:43 pm reply quote

When will the Europeans start to take a more comprehensive, intellectual look at American principles? That limiting speech doesn't solve the underlying issues, but only masks them? That continuing with their anti-American sentiments makes it more difficult to consider alternative options to dealing with their issues?

We don't have everything perfect here in America, but what we did get right has allowed bigots to remain on the fringes where they belong, not masking their bigotry and gaining large following that legitimize them.

I know a lot of individual Europeans love America and Americans. What is wrong with the rest of them though? Embrace free speech! Embrace individual rights! And maybe from there some solutions to european issues could be found.

Then what the hell is Little Green Footballs, Sharmuta? Oh, and yes, you are on the fringes. I've seen LGF's Alexa traffic. Continuing:

(emphasis mine)

Now for Charles in comment #54:

Wilders' plans to ally with the VB have been confirmed to me by other sources.

And since Charles can't get enough of his own commentary:

119 Charles 2/10/09 4:58:24 pm reply quote

re: #117 Vik

The way you "defend yourself" against Islam is by using your power of free speech to argue, demonstrate and reveal what you think should be known. Not by banning religion, and taking away the rights of others.

Fascists ban books, and ban religions. Not people who believe in democracy.

Charles, the defender of free speech! As long as it isn't on his blog...um, yeah...

133 Charles 2/10/09 5:31:48 pm reply quote

re: #127 USBeast

Charles, I do not believe there are any "good ideas" regarding the situation in Europe, only ugly choices. I do not like any of them. I have no contact with neo-Nazis, fascists, Creationists, Truthers or Flat Earthers. I am not in a panic about Islam, but I am concerned about the fate of Western Civilization and consider free and open discussion of issues to be one of the bedrocks of that civilization.

If someone has been offended by any of my comments, please understand that no offense was intended.

I'm not offended - it's just that I've heard all of these arguments for compromising principles and hooking up with really bad people because "it's our only choice or we're doomed!" many times before.

I'm still surprised that people will actually argue that we should drop all our integrity and hook up with people who aren't even fit to be spat upon.

Hmmm, wonder who he's talking about here? (cough...Spencer...cough...Pamela)

199 Charles 2/10/09 8:18:54 pm reply quote


Anyone who advocates making Islam illegal or banning the Koran is living in a dream world. It's not going to happen. Ever. By advocating this crap, all you do is make yourself look like a fanatic.

If that's cool with you, then go ahead. Knock yourselves out.

202 Charles 2/10/09 9:11:45 pm reply quote

re: #201 Vik

Expose the imams, prosecute people who commit crimes, and use the military against stateless terrorist groups. We already have the methods in place to combat militant Islam.

You're dreaming if you think this country will criminalize speech. And if it ever does, it won't be a country I want to live in any more.

Chuckles, the problem solver of our century. Then again, he only posted this to anger his enemies and keep his little feud going. More popcorn anyone?

Posted in full here with even more charming comments.

10,000 Anti-Muslim Maniacs

(Sorry for the length here, I thought it was rather worth it; cross posted at Gates of Vienna Vs. The World Vs. LGF)

It was really only a matter of time. Lizard Queen Sharmuta alerted Charles Johnson to the OUTRAGE of Pamela Geller after her hilarious handling by The National Post in the thread in which Johnson attacked Robert Spencer today (sounding like a soap opera yet? Oh, but it really is....) and Charles started sniffing around like the hound he is. Not like a journalist mind you. Oh, no. We're far from that realm here, which is exactly why we here post about it, and exactly why Chris Selley of The National Post ripped into Pamela Geller as well. But what's a good Blog War Soap Opera without repercussions? Enter Charles Johnson of Little Green Footballs, just like the gloating daytime beauty queen evil mastermind on TV, here to post on Pamela's minor downfall:

The story of one of the most disgusting publicity stunts I think I’ve ever heard of: Chris Selley: How not to memorialize Aqsa Parvez.

Johnson then quotes the article, which was covered by us here, then adds his commentary:

But the craziness doesn’t stop there. Geller also claimed that Barack Obama was the love child of Malcolm X. Yep, really. Her loony post made it into the Comedy Central Indecision 2008 blog, but she was not joking.

Come on Charles, there's obviously so much more you could have done with this story! It's just that Charles is not entirely in on the joke because he is also part of the joke. This is, after all, the man who had just accused Robert Spencer of stooping to the tactics of the mutual targets of both men, "the islamists", so it wouldn't exactly behoove him to get too giddy over Pamela being outraged at having been called "an anti-Muslim maniac". Still, give us something, Chuckles!, something more than the comments section:

3 Racer X 2/20/09 3:15:06 pm reply quote

Don't forget her Nirth Certifikate!

8 teleskiguy 2/20/09 3:16:39 pm reply quote

We need less people like this on our side making waves, and more people like Charles hollerin' loud 'n clear! It's people like Geller who delegitimize what is an absolutely legitimate (and RIGHT, pun intended)point of view. Thank you Charles, for exposing these effing nutballs on our side.

"On our side"?!? "Exposing"?? Um, OK...

10 Bloodnok 2/20/09 3:16:58 pm reply quote

Don't worry, Robert Spencer will probably threaten to sue the author for her. /

13 Dark_Falcon 2/20/09 3:18:59 pm reply quote

Oh, BTW, Charles pointed this out on an earlier thread: Check out the comments. Our former friend, Robert Spencer, stops by to vomit out some his own deranged bile.

Uh oh, looks like I have an update to do.....

26 eon 2/20/09 3:23:02 pm reply quote

With people like Geller, etc., on "my side" (and I use the term extremely loosely), I think I'm beginning to get a fair idea of what a traditional liberal (like Joe Lieberman) feels like when having to talk to the likes of, say, the guy from DailyKos.

It's like trying to explain Einstein's Theory of Relativity (that, among other things, pretty much limits space travel to speeds below 300,000 km/sec) to a "UFO contactee" type. (Good luck with that one. I've tried.)

cheers

eon

Tell me this guy is starting to get a clue and not just rapidly sinking....

59 Anthony (Los Angeles) 2/20/09 3:34:09 pm reply quote

I gave a little money for that headstone, because I felt terrible (then and now) for yet another victim of honor killing -- and who, at the time, had only a pauper's marker, if I recall right. And now I'm sorry it's become such a damnable football. Aqsa Pervez doesn't deserve that.

I stopped reading Atlas a couple of years ago because her shrillness and all-or-nothing views. As a UK friend of mine would put it, she doesn't just go over the top: she's over the top and three trenches deep before the whistle even blows. Now I wish I had listened to my rational side and stayed away this time, too.

61 Killgore Trout 2/20/09 3:35:29 pm reply quote

I don't feel the plan to erect a memorial or buy a gravestone is terribly inappropriate, although I can see the argument. But what is very clear is that Pamela's rabid antics and crazy conspiracy theories have lead people in the real world to consider her a nut and a problem. It's easy to get sucked into the accolades from fellow nuts on the internet but that doesn't change the fact that she's still a nut in the real world. Normal people don't want to be involved with her.
Judging from her reaction to this article it's pretty clear that she doesn't see the problem.

66 Killgore Trout 2/20/09 3:38:13 pm reply quote

re: #62 snowcrash

She should get permission to plant a tree and lay a plaque at the deceased girls high school where other young people can remember her by name.

She tried that but the school refused to allow it because of Pamela's nuttiness.

67 VioletTiger 2/20/09 3:38:44 pm reply quote

re: #61 Killgore Trout
Agree. And nuts attract nuttier nuts.

88 nyc redneck 2/20/09 3:45:20 pm reply quote

pamela's dog and pony show is so inappropriate for such a solemn occasion.
barging her way into this and taking over.
maybe the girl has some family members who care for her.
or pamela could have worked w/ her friends and let them make decisions since they actually know her.
mourning a loved one is a personal thing.
pamela may have meant well but she needs to learn some discretion and subtlety, even if it an issue she feels strongly abt.
other wise it looks like the whole thing is abt. her and not the deceased young woman who was murdered by her father in the name of islam.
this tragedy is abt. sensitivity and awareness.
not self promotion.

Pssst....it's all self-promotion, redneck!

101 Cato the Elder 2/20/09 4:06:21 pm reply quote

[...] in my non-professional opinion, she’s at least a few chickpeas short of a falafel.

Over on Atlas Simpers, crazy Pam takes this as evidence that the author is a anti-Semite.

Not kidding.
102 NY Nana 2/20/09 4:06:46 pm reply quote

re: #77 Killgore Trout

This thread should be kept as the top thread for a week, at least, for anyone who wonders why we are so anti-Geller LOOK AT ME, ME, ME!

I never even entertained the idea that she could go any lower than the night when she went after Charles, her 'blog daddy' . Was I ever wrong! She keeps going lower, lower and lower, and I will bet that she has yet to reach bottom.

Sorry for the caps and the bold, but yes, I am that pissed.

OK Sphinx, hope you made the popcorn, it's time to pass it around. Pastorius gets negative ratings for trying to stand up for Pamela and Sharmuta talks big about being a feminist. Seriously! This is a moment of hilarious twisted beauty for LGF:

109 Pastorius 2/20/09 5:09:57 pm reply quote

61 Kilgore, 62, and 64,
Pamela's efforts have unmasked her family. Her family really does not want her to be honored with a headstone. They really want her to lie in an unmarked grave.

Whatever one might think of Pamela, for whatever reason, she has done well in this case.
110 Pastorius 2/20/09 5:14:47 pm reply quote

Without a name behind it, no effort to raise money for Aqsa would have been successful at all.

Pamela has traffic. Traffic means she has a name. She lent her name to the cause.

If I lent my name to the cause, very little money would be raised.

Good on her. She did well.

111 Sharmuta 2/20/09 5:18:48 pm reply quote


One of the reasons why I'm critical of islam is because I am a feminist, that is that I believe in a woman's right to self determination. Obviously, it was a right Ms. Parvez was denied, and her attempt to have any control over her own life was paid for with her own blood. Demanding respect for a woman once she's already dead is too late, and I have seen nothing to suggest that Ms Geller is concerned, much less aware, about the feminist movement within islam. Rather it seems she is predominately concerned with herself. Ms Parvez was exploited in life by islamic misogyny, and didn't need to be exploited in death so an egomaniac could look as though she cares about the fate of muslim women. For indeed- Ms Geller hasn't apparently taken the time to consider the fate of muslim women throughout europe should her friends in vlaams belang gain all the political power they so desperately want. Rather, these women would be getting thrown to the wolves in being forced to go live in islamic societies where their murders would likely go unpunished. This gravestone would not stop a single additional honor killing from taking place. But pamela wants to think she's doing something about the issue. She's not in the slightest, and for her to think otherwise is delusional.

112 researchok 2/20/09 5:19:47 pm reply quote

Let's put the fire out.

Geller deserves appreciation for her efforts- Parvez deserves better than an unmarked grave. That said, turn the funds raised over to her friends, those who loved her and knew her best. Let them determine the best way to memorialize Aqsa Parvez.
113 researchok 2/20/09 5:23:47 pm reply quote

re: #109 Pastorius

You are right. Whether one agrees with Geller's politics or ideology or not, this particular effort is worthy.

Find a way, make it work.

114 TheGrandMufti[deleted] 2/20/09 5:24:43 pm

That's the Lizard spirit! Take the project on yourselves! Or, um, do what Charles says....



See, Summer has it down to a science:

117 Summer 2/20/09 5:34:54 pm reply quote


It is amazing to me what Pamela actually does for attention. Let's face it, she's an attention whore.

She has no subtlety, no wit, no intelligence. All she has is rage.

She appears to believe that rage was what made Oriana Fallaci famous, or what gave her last stand validity above the rest. She is unable to comprehend that Oriana had a lifetime of sage words behind that rage. If all you see are Oriana's final words, you might be sorely tempted to dismiss them until you read more about her history and work.

That is what gave Oriana's rage the validity it had earned. Oriana wasn't just any idiot ranting the way Pamela rants; Oriana was one of the best and had earned that right.

Rage was not all that Oriana had expressed. Rage was the culmination of seeing the betrayal of what she spent a lifetime expressing.

Pamela has no credit to her name. All that Pamela started with was rage. The more time passes, the louder she gets. Pamela isn't finishing her career with an operatic loud masterpiece of an aria, she thinks she can start it and get louder than the last one on stage.

That isn't how it works, Pamela. Sometimes, a loud song is fine, but most people want to hear music most of the time.

Most sane people, anyway.

Pamela, why don't you shut yourself down for a while and take a sabbatical for, say, a year? Try to relax. Try to breathe the air and travel and interview people. Become the great reporter that Oriana was before she earned the right to write a masterpiece of a rant. Perhaps you'll see what you've been all along.

For now, all you do is rant. But good rants are also sewn with skill, wit, and experience - none of which you have. Perhaps it would be a good idea to acquire them first before you try to pick up such a delicate brush.

Pamela, you are not Oriana Fallaci. You are not a masterful reporter with vast swathes of experience.

What you are, increasingly, is just unhinged.

OK, well the rest of the comments are here just waiting to be giggled over, so head on over and catch up while I polish this off with some classic Charles:

124 Charles 2/20/09 5:44:06 pm reply quote

re: #120 researchok

In an ideal world, you'd be right. It is none of our business. That said, the horses have been let out of the barn for a long time.

Really. So you agree it's nobody's business but the family's, but still think it's appropriate to stage a huge publicity stunt like this -- against the family's wishes?

In what way is this a "conservative" viewpoint -- to dictate to the family of a murdered girl how they should remember their daughter?

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/32843_How_Not_to_Memorialize_Aqsa_Parvez/comments/