Little Green Footballs

Monday, January 21, 2008

Charles Johnson: peace = surrender!

Senior foreign affairs analyst Charles Johnson has laid down the ground rules for solving the Middle East conflict by asserting that an Israeli withdrawal from occupied Lebanese, Syrian and Palestinian territory would amount to surrender.

Of course, CJ doesn't actually explain WHY ending its foreign occupation would be a surrender, and he doesn't offer an alternative solution to achieving peace in the region.

Cynics might say that's because Johnson & Co. don't want peace, because they benefit from the conflict and because they don't actually give a shit about ordinary people over there as long as there's an opportunity to pontificate about a war most of America doesn't really understand.

We're inclined to agree with the cynics.

61 comments:

The Sphinx said...

Imagine the howling and banging of heads against walls if a two-state solution was really achieved..

I supported this idea all along, but this scenario makes me wish for it even more.

Anonymous said...

Well Charles act like a superior to Israel and anybody else, he wants to tell everyone what to do. Israelis themselves want different approach than Charles, yet he calls it surrender. We middle-easterns are tired of this conflict and want it to end. true that it is doubtful that Saudi governments, palestinian terrorist want real peace, but we have to keep door open, so they won't keep their excuses.

on other hand, there is no worse enemy to Palestinians than Palestinians themselves, give them a state, and they will wish Israel back.

Tex Taylor said...

Everytime Israel has given in to the Muslim nations to pacify the Jew haters, whether by peace accords or land withdrawal, war soon follows.

Muslim nations don't want peaceful relations with the Jews; they want Israel's elimination.

Anybody that doesn't recognize that is either a fool, a liar or a brother to the American hatin' the Sphinx.

Anonymous said...

Now hold on a minute. Nowhere does CJ say peace = surrender. You're putting words into his mouth. What he is questioning in his usual elliptical style is whether this is a sincere and feasible offer of peace.

Following 9/11, there was a chorus of voices on the left telling us that we needed to re-examine US ties with Saudi Arabia. Bin Laden was a Saudi; the hijackers were Saudis; wahabism was a Saudi-sponsored export; we're beholden to Saudi oil; etc, etc, etc.

Now all of a sudden we're supposed to believe the Saudis are nothing but angels of light and benevoence who desire nothing but peaceful, equal, coexistence with Israel?

I am not as hawkish as the LGFers, and I would love to believe this Saudi overture may lead to some sort of peaceful settlement; nevertheless, if I were an Israeli, I'd be very suspicious of such a big hearty welcome into "Arab geography." What else is that but an underlying assertion that Israeli land is at bottom Arab land?

In this case, people have a right to be prima facie suspicious. Maybe upon closer analysis and after many rounds of discussion, that suspicion will disappear. If CJ isn't putting up enough words to defend his position (a valid claim that you make), I must say I don't exactly see YOU doing the same, either.

It is preposterous to see you first imagine a horde of "cynics" who are nothing but masks for your own voice, and then state your inclination to agree with them. All that verbiage to say what you think? Who's pontificating now? (And who's this "we" you keep referring to?)

And how, praytell, does CJ "benefit" from protracted hostilities in the Middle East? You're not alluding to this site's unproven and libelous allegation that he's in the secret pay of Mossad and the Republican Party, are you?

The Sphinx said...

Bit off topic here, but I just had to laugh about Charles' raging projection:

A pretty even-handed profile of Michael Yon in today’s New York Times: Frontline Blogger Covers War in Iraq With a Soldier’s Eyes.

I had to laugh at this one, though:

"Like most bloggers, Mr. Yon has an agenda..."

Look who’s talking.


====

Indeed. Look who's talking.

AM said...

What many dont seem to understand about the Mid-east are that the majority of Arab countries, incl the majors, Saudi, Egypt, Gulf States, Jordan are desperate to have the Mid-east conflict resolved. Reason is that these mentioned countries are strong U.S. allies (puppets rather to the U.S.) and this conflict undermines their leaders, whom are not elected leaders, but dictators-for-life essentially. And they are unpopular regimes amongst their peoples and not least due to their subservience to the U.S. Amongst other things, they have offered their own lands as bases for the U.S. to attack or invade other Arab countries and prepare for possible conflict with Iran, and the longer the Israeli-Palestinian conflict continues with their satellite media showing the daily death toll of Palestinian civilians and children from Israeli air and artillery attacks, the more it undermines their leaders and strengthens radicals and opponents to their regimes, esp Islamists.

All they ask for is Israel conforming with existing U.N Security Council resolutions of which the U.S. is a signatory, nothing more. Strict U.S. and UN enforced safeguards monitoring the borders and demilitarizing areas subject to cause security concerns for Israel are easier to implement than leaving it to the current status quo. Israel unfortunately does not wish this to happen because the Occupied Terroritories are considered part and parcel of Israel proper, esp the West Bank (refered to by their Hebraic names Judea and Samaria), and damned be intenational law that states otherwise. Thats the reason Israel began its massive illegal settlement drive since 1967, it would not go through such a major expense only to hand it back. So Israeli Zionist ideologly is basically the biggest stumbling block to peace, it rejects any solution which is based on the return of the Occupied Territories as mandated by int'l law and UN Sec Council resolutions. The Arab countries can accept no less than this, it would be suicidal for their leaders to make peace with Israel based on a non-return of what the world has decreed in numerous UN resolutions and int'l laws that Israel must do.

Unfortnately, Israels excuse is its only the security that prevents it from returning these territories and dismantling the illegal settlements, well when they seize more land, bulldoze more houses, raze Palestinian farmlands and livelihoods, kill any opposition even civilians, children, they will inevitable attract the wrath of terrorists who lob rockets into Israel or suicide bombs. Israel causes the very security issues that it blames the Palestinians for, yet its articulate spokesmen who get more of an ear at CNN, FOX, NYT, WashPost than the mumbling Arabs who usually cannot express themselves well in English, have the upper edge in explaining their side of the story.

(cont).

AM said...

(Cont from above)

Furthermore, the U.S. public is mostly so ignorant of what the issues are (ie, Tex Taylor demonstrates this quite well) and have no idea of vital stuff like this:

UNSC Resolution 267 (1969) of 3 July 1969 [Adopted at 1485th meeting - unanimously]

Reaffirming the established principle that the acquisition of territory by military conquest is inadmissible, deplores the failure of Israel to show any regard for the resolutions of the General Assembly and the Security Council; censures in the strongest terms all measures taken to change the status of the city of Jerusalem; and urgently calls once more on Israel to rescind all measures taken by it to change the status of Jerusalem and in the future to refrain from all actions likely to have such an effect. Determines that in the event of a negative response or no response from Israel, the Security Council shall reconvene without delay to consider what further action should be taken in this matter.

UN Security Council Resolution 465 (1980) of 1 March 1980 [Adopted at 2203rd meeting - unanimously adopted]

Accepts the conclusions and recommendations contained in the report of the Commission of the Security Council (on settlements); determines that all measures taken by Israel to change the physical character, composition, institutional structure or status of the Palestinian and other Arab territories occupied since 1967, including Jerusalem, or any part thereof, have no legal validity and that Israel's policy and practices of settling parts of its population and new immigrants in those territories constitute a flagrant violation of the Fourth Geneva Convention and also constitute a serious obstruction to achieving a comprehensive, just and lasting peace in the Middle East.

Strongly deplores the continuation and persistence of Israel in pursuing those policies and practices and calls upon the government and people of Israel to rescind those measures, to dismantle the existing settlements and in particular to cease, on an urgent basis, the establishment, construction and planning of settlements in the Arab territories occupied since 1967, including Jerusalem. Calls upon all States not to provide Israel with any assistance to be used specifically in connection with settlements in the occupied territories; and requests the Commission to continue examining the situation relating to settlements, to investigate the reported serious depletion of natural resources, particularly water, with a view to ensuring protection of those important natural resources of the territories under occupation.


The above resolutions were unanimously adopted, with the U.S. as a signatory. What could get them to abandon its own commitments to this? Well, if Israel can do THIS, then anything is possible.

Lex said...

My personal solution is what you do with small kids who can't stop fighting over something. Evacuate the entire Holy Land and allow no one to live there since no one can stop fighting over it.

(No, I do NOT actually support forced deportations as I must state lest someone take me too seriously, which is all to possible on a site which lizards read. Still, wouldn't this be great?)

Red Tulips said...

Tex, I have to say I am in agreement with you...

Everytime Israel has given in to the Muslim nations to pacify the Jew haters, whether by peace accords or land withdrawal, war soon follows.

Muslim nations don't want peaceful relations with the Jews; they want Israel's elimination.

Anybody that doesn't recognize that is either a fool, a liar or a brother to the American hatin' the Sphinx.


Truer words have not been spoken. Except I will go a step further.

It is an outrage that Israel - a nation the size of a postage stamp (I know, I have seen almost every inch of it) - should give up strategically invaluable land for 'peace' with terrorists who do not want peace.

Not only that - this means that the IDF is now devoted to expelling Jews from their homes. This is not the mission of the IDF and demoralizes the IDF.

This will not bring about peace, it rather emboldens terrorists and guarantees more war.

You want peace? The only way there can be peace is through changing Arab society, so that coexistence is possible.

Stop blaming the victim (Israel). Unless and until you and others of your ilk stop blaming the victim, there can never and will never be peace.

And so, it is Charles Johnson who is doing his part to bring about peace in the Mideast, by highlighting exactly where blame lies, in the hopes that maybe this might bring about change.

Red Tulips said...

And I want to add that am is propogating a number of utter lies...

1. The USS Liberty was an accident, period. Stop pretending otherwise.

2. The UN resolutions require that terrorists disband before Israel be mandated to give up land.

3. I don't care what the UN says, anyway, since it is a useless, feckless, terror-enabling institution which is devoted to an antisemitic agenda. More resolutions have been passed against Israel than every other nation on earth. COMBINED. Say what you would like to say about Israel. It is no Saudi Arabia, Liberia, Iran, Zimbabwe, Uganda, China, Pakistan...

I could go down the line.

The UN does not care about the human rights of the humans who reside in those nations. It has totally delegitimized itself by its obsessive focus on Israel.

So basically please disregard every word written by am as distortions and untruths.

Tex Taylor said...

Furthermore, the U.S. public is mostly so ignorant of what the issues are (ie, Tex Taylor demonstrates this quite well) and have no idea of vital stuff like this:...~am said

Well, I see with got another excuse making, western hating, UN parroting jihadist attempting to appease the lost souls; those "peace loving" Palestinian Arab nationalist countries who just happen to declare war on Israel the very first day of its newly declared existence in May of 1948. And let us not forget the Grand Mufti buddying with Hitler just a few years before. Such great friends!

But let's put that aside for a minute and talk something that hopefully any dumb American can understand and perhaps remember; especially since our history with these "puppet" countries doesn't seem to have taut strings.

Anybody remember our "puppets" celebrating in the streets of Palestine after two towers came tumbling down on the top of 2,700 American citizens while chanting Allāhu Akbar, passing along sweets in praise of Bin Laden? The large crowds of Mohammed loving people boogieing after the deaths of 3,000 U.S. citizens, few who were even affiliated with the military?

Now if some of you guys and gals want to continue to make believe entities such as the U.N. have America's best interests at heart, that the U.N. is sound in judgment (like nominating the Sudan to their human right's council), and that Palestinians are just poor, poor victims of those wretched Jews, be my guest.

But I do hope you ignorant U.S. public types like me can remember for one moment that dance in the streets and consider maybe, just maybe folks like am said might enjoy that being the last sight you see right before they begin dancing on your grave.

Tex Taylor said...

RT, The UN resolutions require that terrorists disband before Israel be mandated to give up land.

Ah, don't be too tough on the willfully ignorant. Most Americans (I am American) seem to have forgotten that the UN, including the U.S., was accusing Israel of making war when they took out a certain Iraqi reactor in 1981 - provided by the French (another one of the U.S. puppet countries - we control the entire world, you know).

Of course, 25+ years after the fact that Saddam's reactor went terminal, we don't hear much from the feckless UN about how wrong the experts were or just how wrong the rest of the world was.

Let's hope little Israel doesn't go wobbly when it comes to Iran. Lord knows the rest of the world, including my beloved country, has buried our head in the sand.

AM said...

RT says:
1. The USS Liberty was an accident, period. Stop pretending otherwise.

Only trouble is, that the people closest to all the details of the USS Liberty, the U.S.'s top brass at the time, disagree. These include Admiral Thomas Moorer
Chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Raymond G. Davis, United States Marine Corps, (MOH), Former Assistant Commandant of The Marine Corps; Rear Admiral Merlin Staring, United States Navy (Ret.) whom in 2003 part of a commission of highly regarded experts to look into the matter. Earlier, Admiral Moorer, not bound by the diplomatic niceties of such a report, had this to say in a 1997 memorandum:

"I have never believed that the attack on the USS Liberty was a case of mistaken identity. That is ridiculous. I have flown over the Atlantic and Pacific oceans, thousands of hours, searching for ships and identifying all types of ships at sea. The Liberty was the ugliest, strangest looking ship in the U.S. Navy. As a communications intelligence ship, it was sprouting every kind of antenna. It looked like a lobster with all those projections moving every which way.

"Israel knew perfectly well that the ship was American. After all, the Liberty's American flag and markings were in full view in perfect visibility for the Israeli aircraft that overflew the ship eight times over a period of nearly eight hours prior to the attack. I am confident that Israel knew the Liberty could intercept radio messages from all parties and potential parties to the ongoing war, then in its fourth day, and that Israel was preparing to seize the Golan Heights from Syria despite President Johnson's known opposition to such a move. I think they realized that if we learned in advance of their plan, there would be a tremendous amount of negotiating between Tel Aviv and Washington.

"And I believe Moshe Dayan concluded that he could prevent Washington from becoming aware of what Israel was up to by destroying the primary source of acquiring that information the USS Liberty. The result was a wanton sneak attack that left 34 American sailors dead and 171 seriously injured. What is so chilling and cold-blooded, of course, is that they could kill as many Americans as they did in confidence that Washington would cooperate in quelling any public outcry..."

RT says:
2. The UN resolutions require that terrorists disband before Israel be mandated to give up land.

Terrorists are outlaws, they do not conform to legalities or UN resolutions. Are you putting Israel, a soverign nation, on the same footing as terrorists? And which UN resolutions are you referring to that they "disband before Israel be mandated to give up land"? It is Israels brutal occupation that breeds terrorists, you cannot put the cart before the horse.

RT says:
3. I don't care what the UN says, anyway, since it is a useless, feckless, terror-enabling institution which is devoted to an antisemitic agenda.

Problem is, the UN also consists of Israeli backers, the U.S. and Britain were signatories to the above UN Sec Council resolutions. And the above excerpts were about as damning as you can get and a compelling clue as to where the real problem lies in achiveing Mid-east peace. Re-read the excerpts once again, I know its a bitter pill for Israeli-firsters to swallow that the U.S. could have signed on to these, but such was the case. Only trouble is that the U.S. was made to go back on its principles for political reasons, reasons that could make or break U.S. politicians seeking higher office, and the same driving force that basically derailed the findings of the U.S's top brass and intelligence community and is desparately to this day trying to sweep the USS Liberty under the rug and prevent public awareness of it.

AM said...

Tex Taylor says:
Anybody remember our "puppets" celebrating in the streets of Palestine after two towers came tumbling down on the top of 2,700 American citizens while chanting Allahu Akbar, passing along sweets in praise of Bin Laden? The large crowds of Mohammed loving people boogieing after the deaths of 3,000 U.S. citizens, few who were even affiliated with the military?

Sept. 11 also occured during the days of the intifada, when Israeli forces were inflicting a heavy death toll on Palestinian civilians. So the reaction of a few Palestinian children caught on camera seeing Israel's chief backer (the U.S.) and supplier of the very weapons that were killing them, taking a heavy hit, was not unexpected, yet they were isolated nevertheless. Tell you what. Take any people on earth, bomb the hell out of them, torment them, expell them from their homes and lands, and chances are they will not respond too kindly to you or your enemies helpers.

Since you mentioned Sept.11, I guess you're of the view that it occured because "they hate our freedoms" (Bush) or "they were infidels" as CJ would have it . Sept.11 had its roots in the 1982 U.S. backed Israeli invasion of Lebanon, where for strategic purposes (rather than the claim to weed out PLO terrorists) Israel invaded the country and indiscriminately bombed the hell out of the place causing some 20,000 deaths, about 90% of whom were civilians. Heavily populated areas of Beirut, high-rise apartment towers, were reduced to rubble. Well guess what, it is here that Bin Laden first thought of Israels enablers, the U.S., and swore he would "destroy their towers" as well. Again, when you inflict mass loss of life on ANY people, they will not think too kindly of you, the American people as victims khow that too.

Tex Taylor said...

am said: So the reaction of a few Palestinian children caught on camera seeing Israel's chief backer (the U.S.) and supplier of the very weapons that were killing them, taking a heavy hit, was not unexpected, yet they were isolated nevertheless.

That is, without doubt, the lamest excuse and biggest bunch of malarkey I have ever read on this particular blog. Is that that best you can do to excuse a bunch of animals caught on tape celebrating innocent civilians being wiped from the face of the earth in public buildings? Or chants of "Death to America" that ring on our TVs every night? Whatever sympathies I had for the Palestinians vanished that afternoon never to return. It wasn't children I was witnessing pal - more like groups of men and women dancing in the Pali streets ulalating or whatever that stupid sound they make with their tongues. Old Yasser, blood libelist and one of the original Munich terrorists himself, started seeing his own life flash before his eyes and offered his own personal, feeble apology to George Bush and the American people on 60 minutes, lips quivering. Now you want to tell me Yasser did that for a few dumb, little children? Arafat was scared out of his wits and he knew Palestine had finally been exposed as the villains. Oh, and the truth hurts doesn't am?

9/11 happened because you and a great majority of your Muslim brethren abroad hate the U.S. government and if you were to honest for once, the American people, for our continued support of Israel. You don't hate the U.S. for our freedom because you and your lying leaders no more understand freedom than you understand honesty.

You're hatred of the U.S. started perhaps 60/70 years ago. You hate anybody that doesn't hate the Jews. But your hatred of the Jews started long before 1982, or 1979 or even 1948. You and your ancestors have hated the Jews for the past 4,000 years because they beat you at every turn. Your rage is only exceeded by your jealousy. Instead of befriending the Jews and benefiting from it greatly like we do, liked a scorned little child you react with violent tantrums. It will be your undoing.

AM said...

Tex Taylor says:
That is, without doubt, the lamest excuse and biggest bunch of malarkey I have ever read on this particular blog. Is that that best you can do to excuse a bunch of animals caught on tape celebrating innocent civilians being wiped from the face of the earth in public buildings? Or chants of "Death to America" that ring on our TVs every night? Whatever sympathies I had for the Palestinians vanished that afternoon never to return.

You are wrong in this and simply unaware of the huge outpouring of sympathy for the U.S. right after Sept.11 from the majority of Muslims, even from amongst its most adverserial of groups:

- The terrorist act was strongly condemned by every single Palestinian organization including Fatah, the Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine, the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, Hamas, Workers Unions and Committees, Human Right organizations (AlHaq, Law, Palestine Center for Human Rights), student associations, municipalities, mosques and churches, etc.

- The US Consul General in Jerusalem reported that he has received a huge stack of faxes from Palestinians and Palestinian organizations expressing condolences, grief and solidarity. He himself was pained to see that the media chose to focus on the sensational images of a few Palestinians rejoicing.

- The Palestine Legislative Council condemned the terrorist attack on the United States and sent an urgent letter of condolences to Mr. J Dennis Hasterd, Speaker of the House of Representatives.

- Palestinians in East Jerusalem held a candle-light vigils on 12 and 14 September to express their grief and solidarity with the American families struck by this tragedy. Mr. Abdel Qader Al-Husseini, son of the late Palestinian leader Faisal Al-Husseini led one of the vigils.

- Jerusalem University students, along with the President of the University and the Deans of the various Faculties, began a blood donation drive in East Jerusalem. Students and professors went to hospitals in order to donate blood for the American victims who need it.

- The 1 million Palestinian students in the Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem, stood five minutes in silence to express their solidarity with the hundreds of American children who have been struck by this strategy, which resembles in its shocking effects their daily sufferings. (see image to the right)

-In Iran, Tehran's main soccer stadium observed an unprecedented minute's silence in sympathy with the victims...


Much of the "hate" from Muslims that you perceive is from selected, sensational snippets of radical or extremist groups that is standard fare at LGF. Some of that 'hate' or displeasure with the U.S. was unfortunately exacerbated after the U.S. invasion of Iraq. Even Europe had a similarly wide-spread disdain for the U.S. due to the U.S.'s war-mongering policies and Iraq invasion. Unfortunately, extreme groups or individuals have taken extreme actions that served as a focal point for hate sites (LGF) to blur the distinctions between such groups and ALL Muslims. And the gullible with no previous knowledge or sense of persepective swallow it hook, line and sinker.

Btw, I am a Muslim by birth, agnostic in outlook. I do acknowledge severe shortcomings in Islam as a religion, especially when it serves as the main focal point in an indivdials life, but am also aware that for most Muslims, it is not the over-riding element in their lives. As with most individuals, their main concern is feeding and providing for their families and children and going on with life in as undramatic a fashion as can be. Most are not concerned with politics, world events or the going-ons of the Israeli-Pal conflict, these things are peripheries in their lives. There have been far more anti-U.S. demonstrations in European capitals than in the Muslim world, or is 2003 too far a distant memory for you to go back to?

The Sphinx said...

Funny that a person like Tex Taylor whiningly insists that we completely detest everybody, when he himself is one of the most hateful people I've encountered in a long time, and would probably be dancing in the street if somebody happened to drop a nuke on an Arabic country.

Oh the wonders of projection..

AM said...

Tex Taylor says:
You're hatred of the U.S. started perhaps 60/70 years ago. You hate anybody that doesn't hate the Jews. But your hatred of the Jews started long before 1982, or 1979 or even 1948. You and your ancestors have hated the Jews for the past 4,000 years because they beat you at every turn.

As this well demonstrates, your ignorance far exceeds your grasp of facts or history. The Jews and Muslims have gotten along far better than the Christians have with the Jews over the last 2000 years (Muslims only go back 1400 years). It is only in recent history, specifically in the last 60 years, after Israels creation and the dispossesion of Palestinians from their homes and lands that a 'hate' of any sort began to surface.

For the "past 4000 years" that you allude to, the "Muslims" of that area were basically of the same stock of Semetic peoples as the Jews/Canaanites, and there were no competing religions, ideologies or land disputes that could have coalesced into some sort of "hate" towards the Jews during that period. Sure, when Islam was established there arose some minor disputes or skirmishes, but it was FAR from the scale the Jews suffered at the hands of Christainity over the last 2000 years: An Overview of 2000 Years of Jewish Persecution. In fact, the Jews often sought refuge in Muslim lands during the Inquisition and other Christian pogroms. Sadly, one would never have an inkling of any real history if their main reference was LGF or similarly selective hate sights.

As far as the "hatred" of the U.S. that you say "started 60/70 years ago", that is untrue. Opinion polls in most Muslim countries, even in the Mid-east have always admired the American people, they just resented their govts policies. The times when this resentment would surface was during highly charged political or military interventions or conflicts that results in great loss of life for their people, esp their women and children. Unfortunately our media is not as discrete as the Western media when it comes to showing graphic images of limbless children or gaping wounds caused by indiscriminate Israeli shelling (which people perceive the U.S. as enabling or allowing to happen). How would Americans feel if those images were of their own kids? I'm sure you get the point, but I guess your hate will get the better of you as soon as you slink back to your Lizard Lounge.

cokane said...

If, as Vonnegut once said, the US soldiers are being used "like some toys a rich kid got for Christmas" than Charles Johnson and the Lizards are like the poor neighborhood friend who gets to come over and watch the rich kid play with his toys.

Tex Taylor said...

am:- The Palestine Legislative Council condemned the terrorist attack on the United States and sent an urgent letter of condolences to Mr. J Dennis Hasterd, Speaker of the House of Representatives.

I'd be more impressed if the PLC could spell the name of Dennis Hastert correctly - yes, we saw the great faux outpouring; lasted all of six weeks until we entered Afghanistan and begin to blow Taliban away. Sorry, ain't buying the love. It was a facade and smart Americans knew it from the beginning.

However am, in fairness to you, I am sure that you are correct about most Muslims living in the middle east are simply trying to survive. They are victims, no doubt. However, they must share a part of the blame because they so far have been unable or refused to remove the radical factions that currently call the shots. The bottom line is that the trouble in that part of the world is due to the people in that part of the world. Jews make convenient scapegoats for your failings of your leaders but the real villains are your Al-Qaeda, your Hamas, your Hezballah, your PLO, the former Yasser, Osama, Moammar, Bashar Al-Asad, etc...

Until a majority of Muslims in the middle east own up to that fact and remove those elements, misery for a majority of your citizens will continue.

P.S. - I'm not a member of LGF. Just a jingoistic American.

Tex Taylor said...

Sphinx,

This projection you speak of - is this the new academia you've learned from your formative years of philosophy 101 while in college, hoping to make yourself sound bright? If so, you need to read further into Mr. Kant's or Mr. Freud's textbooks because hardly a thread goes by that I don't read you attempting to use the term "projection."

Your posts for some reason bring to mind the descriptors simple, mundane, inane, repetitive, and redundant. And plagiarizing from your psychology textbook is unbecoming and no way to go thru life kid. Move to Chapter II and read of arrested development, commonly know as developmental disorder.

tex taylor said...

As this well demonstrates, your ignorance far exceeds your grasp of facts or history. The Jews and Muslims have gotten along far better than the Christians have with the Jews over the last 2000 years (Muslims only go back 1400 years). It is only in recent history, specifically in the last 60 years, after Israels creation and the dispossesion of Palestinians from their homes and lands that a 'hate' of any sort began to surface.

I'll try to remind myself of the historical fact of my ignorance as I read of Hagar and Ishmael being "the chosen."

I apologize for paraphrasing Islam to mean any of the ancient Semitic tribes. Believe me, I'm well aware of when a false prophet called Mohammed appeared. Whether called pharaoh, baal, Artexerxes, Nebuchadnezzar, or Mohammed, they all run together for me. Sorry, it's a bad habit.

But why debate history? I fully admit the sins of my forefathers calling themselves Christian and acting anything but. We've got a bloody history.

However, if your "love and admiration" for the Jews (according to you, your ancient Semitic brothers) exceeds that of Christianity as you state, why don't you begin to prove it in the here and now?

Do so, and you and I shake hands and call each other friend. I don't think that is going to happen, do you?

The Sphinx said...

Once again, a completely worthless analysis on your part, tex. If _you_ are the one who constantly referred to Arabs as filthy and animals, then hysterically accuse others of being haters, based on nothing other than your sole imagination, then projection is the right word for that.

Arrogance and ignorance don't go well when mixed together, surely a grown guy like you should know that.

"However am, in fairness to you, I am sure that you are correct about most Muslims living in the middle east are simply trying to survive. They are victims, no doubt. However, they must share a part of the blame because they so far have been unable or refused to remove the radical factions that currently call the shots."

That's very easy for you to say, and also rather preposterous coming from a man whose country has failed to overthrow its rubbish government after 7 years of corruption, warmongering and causing and supporting far more destruction and misery to civilians' lives in the Mid East than all terrorists can inflict on the US put together.

But this is a perspective that's too cryptic for your likes to understand, and I'm not going to attempt to make it any easier for you.

Glad to be a thorn in your side.

AM said...

Tex Taylor says:
However, if your "love and admiration" for the Jews (according to you, your ancient Semitic brothers) exceeds that of Christianity as you state, why don't you begin to prove it in the here and now?

Do so, and you and I shake hands and call each other friend. I don't think that is going to happen, do you?


That was not my point. I simply responded to your statement that "You and your ancestors have hated the Jews for the past 4,000 years..." by pointing out Christianity's relationship with the Jews and that they suffered nothing remotely comparable in the scale or extent of hate and persecution from the Muslims. I only put things in persepctive for you and for accuracys sake. I have no problem with shaking anyones hand of any faith, creed or nation, Israeli, American or extraterrestial even, so I dont know what you want me to prove nor do I care really.

Cheers,
AM

Tex Taylor said...

That's very easy for you to say, and also rather preposterous coming from a man whose country has failed to overthrow its rubbish government after 7 years of corruption, warmongering and causing and supporting far more destruction and misery to civilians' lives in the Mid East than all terrorists can inflict on the US put together.

Uh huh...

So you Americanized and European LGF Watchers who continually lend your tacit support to "The Sphinx" still think I'm wrong about where old pharaoh's loyalties lie?

I can understand your disdain for some of the individual comments at LGF about nuclear annihilation and things of that sort. But I'll be damned if I understand your allegiance to someone who disdains your entire culture...

Glad to be a thorn in your side. ~ The Sphinx

That would be more like comedy relief. You're philosophical rants about "projection" and other mind numbing academia slang are always good for a chuckle. Keep studying!

Red Tulips said...

I have to respond to this laughable 'sphinx' assertion...

That's very easy for you to say, and also rather preposterous coming from a man whose country has failed to overthrow its rubbish government after 7 years of corruption, warmongering and causing and supporting far more destruction and misery to civilians' lives in the Mid East than all terrorists can inflict on the US put together.

But this is a perspective that's too cryptic for your likes to understand, and I'm not going to attempt to make it any easier for you.

Glad to be a thorn in your side.


Sphinx, please do not kid yourself. You are not a thorn in anybody's side. You are rather a symbol for all that is wrong with supposed 'moderate Islam.' You seek to blame the west, rather than critically look at your own history, culture, and religion. Nothing is the fault of Islam or Muslims; it is all the fault of 'the West,' Israel, or any other boogey man you like to make up.

You blame and blame and blame others. Poor you! Poor poor you! You have to wait in long lines in Germany for your green card. Poor you! Let's all weep and feel bad for the sad Sphinx! Look at how the West is so evil, making you wait in line! Indeed, every indignity is the height of evil. Look at those poor 'Palestinians' as they endure the 'misery' of border crossings! Let's weep and sob and moan and wail! Poor them! Poor, poor them!

The fact that Jews are not allowed residence in 'moderate' Jordan is irrelevant. The fact that Jews are living in a state of fear in Iran and Saudi Arabia is irrelevant. The fact that synagogues across EUROPE have to hire armed guards, due to the real fear of being terrorized is irrelevant. The fact that 'Palestinians' only have to 'endure' long lines at checkpoints because of suicide bombers is irrelevant. The fact that YOU have to go through extra screening because of the real and justified fear of Egyptian terrorists (who formed the famous Hamburg cell) is irrelevant.

Blame the West! There is no logic behind why the West does what it does! It is all hatred! Islamophobia! We "Westerners" are just inherently bigoted! The fact that Saudis call Africans in Saudi the Arabic word for "slave" is irrelevant! The West is so bigoted, and Arabs have no reason to engage in self reflection!

But, oh right, you like the West. You love the West! You love Jews! How dare anyone say otherwise? How dare anyone imply otherwise, how dare they 'besmirch' you?

In summary: Sphinx, please do not kid yourself. You are nothing but a symbol of all that is wrong with the world. That is it. You symbolize the mentality that guarantees there will never be peace. Unless and until your mentality - which only reflects the greater whole of that seen in 'moderate Muslims' changes...

There cannot be peace. And will not be peace.

Red Tulips said...

Sorry, one correction.

Jews are not living in a state of fear in Saudi Arabia, because if they are Jewish, they are not even allowed to STEP FOOT in Saudi Arabia.

But again, this does not matter, because according to Sphinx, it is ISRAEL that is the apartheid state and so evil.

Poor Sphinx! Poor, poor Sphinx!

The Sphinx said...

HAH!!!

"I can understand your disdain for some of the individual comments at LGF about nuclear annihilation and things of that sort. But I'll be damned if I understand your allegiance to someone who disdains your entire culture..."

What Tex Taylor and Red Tulips consistently and insistingly fail at grasping is that criticism of a government is worlds apart from "disdaining an entire culture".
Your Government doesn't represent your people, even though technically it should, because MILLIONS of Americans are completely against the shenanigans it's committing, and there is no reason to judge a CULTURE of the PEOPLE, by a GOVERNMENT.

How mentally and/or logically challenged do you have to be to mix these things up? Or are you so linguistically challenged that you don't comprehend what I say? I mean Red Tulips has a history of twisting words around and getting contexts all mixed up..

Anyway let me paraphrase, in very easy English and simple sentences, so maybe even you can understand:

I believe that..

..the American Government is rubbish,
..the Israeli Government is rubbish.
.. and the Egyptian Government is rubbish.

The list goes on and on and on.
And yet:

Do I hate Americans or American culture? No
Do I hate Israelis or Israeli culture? No
Do I hate Egyptians or Egyptian culture? Hell no

Before the two of you actually understand this concept, you will be the laughing stock of this site, and make complete idiots out of yourselves.

Actually I need to apologize. I'm really sorry for wasting my time with both of you over things like this. Maybe one day you'll be a bit wiser..

And Red Tulips, spare your false pity. I'm doing fine without your "guidance".

Red Tulips said...

Very interesting that Sphinx did not mention whether he hates the Muslim Brotherhood.

Because he does not.

Of course he hates the Egyptian government; he would claim it is Western aligned!

Nothing he has written shows any form of self reflection at all. Instead it is 'righteous indignation.'

Oh right, he does not hate the Jewish people, but instead he quotes from a disgusting and totally twisted article on Sabbah's antisemitic hate site about a Holocaust survivor claiming Israel is the next Nazi Germany. Then he goes about engaging in the worst form of disgusting and deplorable moral equivalence out there: claiming that Bush = Al Queda by implication, since the Americans have not stopped Bush in the same way Muslims have not stopped al queda.

According to Sphinx, there is no morality, it is all relative, but even so, really on "the West"/America/Israel/those who align themselves with those parties deserves the real condemnation.

Sphinx, go and claim whatever you want to claim. I do not care. Anyone with half a brain can see the obvious truth, that you are brainwashed beyond recognition.

Tex Taylor said...

Well Red Tulips,

I don't know if you were as touched by "The Sphinx" and his pious apology above as I was, but all I can say is poor, poor Sphinx! GUFFAW! I must add that one to my personal repertoire!

Mr. Sphinx:

How mentally and/or logically challenged do you have to be to mix these things up?

I guess pretty mixed up. For 40+ years, I always believed being in the majority meant we won. Doesn't the following equation mean anything in Egypt? > 50%; Okay, okay. So you only hate the majority of Americans and the majority of its culture...gotcha :)

Or are you so linguistically challenged that you don't comprehend what I say?

I was simply practicing "projection" Chapter 1, pg 1; "SIGMUND FREUD" - 3rd Ed. ~ German Psychology 1001

stvip said...

"Do I hate Israelis or Israeli culture? No"

No, of course not.

You merely loathe Zionism.
(those are the exact words you used - loathe Zionism)

Sphinx, you are a hypocrite.

That this is also true with regards to Charles Johnson and Red Tulips does not exonerate you.

For the record, I believe that there does exist peaceful, moderate Islam. I do not believe you are a good representative of it.

Anonymous said...

What Tex Taylor and Red Tulips consistently and insistingly fail at grasping is that criticism of a government is worlds apart from "disdaining an entire culture".
Your Government doesn't represent your people, even though technically it should, because MILLIONS of Americans are completely against the shenanigans it's committing, and there is no reason to judge a CULTURE of the PEOPLE, by a GOVERNMENT.

How mentally and/or logically challenged do you have to be to mix these things up?


Sphinx, they can't help it. I'm an American who completely agrees with your criticism of the US government above--as do MILLIONS of us (70 percent!)--and RT and Tex are embedded in a political culture that has spent the past 7 years happily and busily redefining 'criticism' as 'treason', 'disagreement' as 'unpatriotic', and 'protest' as 'aiding and abetting the enemy'.

That's been the despicable and cynical strategy of the Bush administration and neo-cons in response to all attempts to protest or even question Dear Leader and his policies: "you're either with us or you're with the terruhists".

You can see it all over the right wing blogosphere and every day at LGF in the comments section, where they pray for all Democrats and 'dirty fucking hippies' to be hung for treason, rounded up and put into camps, or just wish that there will be a nuclear attack on NYC or San Francisco or some other place the 'liberals' and peace activists gather.

These people can't even understand that other Americans can criticize Bush or the war without being 'traitors' who are 'committing treason' and 'supporting Al Quaeda'--

so of course they can't understand it of you. Hopeless.

Roll on November 2008!

Anonymous said...

But I do hope you ignorant U.S. public types like me can remember for one moment that dance in the streets and consider maybe, just maybe folks like am said might enjoy that being the last sight you see right before they begin dancing on your grave.

See? A perfect expression of their eliminationist impulse.

stvip said...

am:

While your point about Christian persecution of Jews far exceeding that of Islam is correct (that's one of the things I dislike most about LGF - lack of historical perspective and outright revisionism to suit their hateful agenda), the rest of your posts are rubbish.

Israel never engaged in "indiscriminate bombing". The Israeli occupation is anything but "brutal". Despite that being a popular, easy-to-understand story, it is not that "brutal occupation" which breeds terrorism. It is the desire to destroy Israel, refusing any reasonable peaceful solution, which breeds terrorism. Civilians may be genuinely outraged by the disgusting, graphic propaganda of displaying the dead and wounded in Middle Eastern media, but that is a cheap manipulation of their feelings. Any casualties resulting from action Israel and the US have taken in self-defense (and much of those are known to be exaggerated or just completely fake) are nothing compared to what Arab countries have done to each and themselves.
etc.

I'm proud to say I've been banned from LGF. This was for condemning its nature as a hate-site. I know there are sane, moderate Muslims who believe in peace and co-existence. In fact, I firmly believe the perceived role of Islam specifically in the current conflict is grossly overblown (if it weren't Islam rallying the Middle East, it would have been something else; just a few years ago it used to be dominantly Communism and Pan-Arabism, rather than Islamism).

I don't see moderate Muslims here. Just more CAIR and MPACUK sound-alikes.

Unfortunately, I fear that brainwashing with propaganda misinformation, so prevalent in Middle Eastern news agencies and the likes of the Guardian and BBC will guarantee encounters with informed, reasonable people will becomes increasingly rarer.

Tex Taylor said...

anon and anon, I always love liberal cowards that post anonymously...you could at least grab a set within your own community.

You can see it all over the right wing blogosphere and every day at LGF in the comments section, where they pray for all Democrats and 'dirty fucking hippies' to be hung for treason, rounded up and put into camps, or just wish that there will be a nuclear attack on NYC or San Francisco or some other place the 'liberals' and peace activists gather.

and

See? A perfect expression of their eliminationist impulse.

But what's my wife, registered as a Dimocrat, going to say? Rather than eliminationist, I prefer "GO HOME to the CESSPOOL from whence you CAME and take the loathing America crowd with you. Both countries would benefit."

Anonymous said...

anon and anon, I always love liberal cowards that post anonymously...you could at least grab a set within your own community.

So Tex Taylor is the name on your birth certificate? My sympathies.

But what's my wife, registered as a Dimocrat, going to say? Rather than eliminationist, I prefer "GO HOME to the CESSPOOL from whence you CAME and take the loathing America crowd with you. Both countries would benefit."

Why, that's not a hateful sentiment at all. You sure proved me wrong! You advocate rounding up and mass deportations of those who disagree with you, not outright extermination. Whoops, my bad.

I have news for you "Tex"--I already AM home, right here in the US. And happily anonymous.

Dissent does not equal treason...and I can't think of anything more profoundly UNamerican and UNdemocratic than your wish that it did.

AM said...

Stvip says:
"Israel never engaged in "indiscriminate bombing". The Israeli occupation is anything but "brutal". Despite that being a popular, easy-to-understand story, it is not that "brutal occupation" which breeds terrorism. It is the desire to destroy Israel, refusing any reasonable peaceful solution, which breeds terrorism."

Unfortunately indiscriminate bombing and shelling of civilians, albeit in the pursuit of militants or combatants, has long been a tactical measure that Israel has frequently employed. The 1982 invasion of Lebanon resulted in some 20,000 deaths, 90% of whom were civilians, almost all of it due to Israeli bombing and shelling of population centers where combatants may have been located. Some 7000 civilans were killed in Beirut alone due to Israels use of cluster bombs and phosphorus bombs (one banned under international law and the other restricted from use in populated areas).

In 2003, Israel dropped a 2000lb bomb on an apartment building that housed many civilians as well as a Hamas militant... in the middle of the night. Result? 18 dead, including 14 children. Yes, they got their man, but seems they couldnt wait for him to come out in the morning and just shoot him.

Again, in Israels war against Hezbollah in 1986. This is the actual title of a Human Rights Watch report:

Israel’s Indiscriminate Attacks Against Civilians in Lebanon

Read it.

IMO, Israel purposely does this as a tactic to send the message to governments and people in the region that their will be hell to pay, even from slight provocations, and that their people, innocent or not, will bear the brunt of it.

AM said...

Sorry typo, in my last post I mentioned Israels war against Hezbollah in 1986. I meant 2006.

Tex Taylor said...

LOL. No, I'm afraid Tex is not my real name. Cross my heart...But it at least identifies as being unique. Makes it a little easier to respond to your complaint without a timestamp, don't you think? I'm not advocating mass deportations. I simply wish you and your cowardly ilk would disappear, whatever rock you choose to crawl back under.

Dissent does not equal treason...and I can't think of anything more profoundly UNamerican and UNdemocratic than your wish that it did.

That's fine. Scream your loathing American slogans to heaven with the rest of the Code Pink crowd. Being here gives you that privilege. It brings great humor to my life; or at least it used to but like stale bread, eventually it needs to be discarded.

Being here also gives me the privilege to call your insipid dissent whining, faux victimhood, and adds to the fact I think you a sniveling coward.

Tex Taylor said...

IMO, Israel purposely does this as a tactic to send the message to governments and people in the region that their will be hell to pay, even from slight provocations, and that their people, innocent or not, will bear the brunt of it.

Baloney. You wouldn't be typing here if that was Israel's intent. They'd have flamed a Jew hater like you long ago.

But assuming your story is true, which I think you a Hamas propagandist and I have from the start, where's the condemnation of the scumbag who ran in and hid behind civilians? Did I miss that?

AM said...

tex taylor says:
"Baloney. You wouldn't be typing here if that was Israel's intent. They'd have flamed a Jew hater like you long ago.

But assuming your story is true, which I think you a Hamas propagandist and I have from the start, where's the condemnation of the scumbag who ran in and hid behind civilians? Did I miss that?"


Reptilian logic. Dont know if you "missed that" or are simply too inept to understand the difference between dropping a bomb on an apartment building with a heavy civilan presence in the middle of the night or assassinating him when he ventured out the next day.

"Jew hater"? Crude, but maybe convenient to just throw labels when unable to understand or rebut specific points properly.

Red Tulips said...

am,

Since when is Israel required to send its soldiers into hostile enemy territory in order to put a bullet through the brain of a Hamas operative, one on one?

That is the most nonsensical and offensive standard I have ever read. It is an antisemitic standard, given you place that onus only on Israel, and no other country on earth. And it places no responsibility on 'Palestinian' terrorists, whose very purpose is to kill as many civilians as possible.

Requiring this of Israel ensures maximum Jew death, as it is not a way one can win wars. Israel goes out of its way to kill as few civilians as possible, even as they are cynically used as human shields by 'Palestinian' human butchers/terrorists. Israel does this, even as little kids attack Israeli civilians and suicide bomb/murder.

Israel believes in human rights. You do not.

Sad.

Tex Taylor said...

Reptilian logic. Dont know if you "missed that" or are simply too inept to understand the difference between dropping a bomb on an apartment building with a heavy civilan presence in the middle of the night or assassinating him when he ventured out the next day.

Lizard Logic perhaps - if so, by random chance since I'm not part of the family.

You'll forgive my assumed ineptness if I venture a guess these "innocent" civilians you speak of are anything but. More likely, affiliated members whether by deed or commission being that I have yet to hear of the perpetrator simply walking out the next day to be assassinated. They certainly do seem to make themselves at home for extended periods of time, looking none the worse for wear when the their ugly mug reappears sometime later.

I've noted the Jew hating, terrorist appeasing propagandists are big on semantics while they assist with the rusty blade. Is it cowardice that keeps them from admitting truth, simple ignorance or your modus operandi? My policy is to avoid mincing words so that there is no misunderstanding.

The Sphinx said...

"Israel goes out of its way to kill as few civilians as possible"

Well there are two options here:

Either you are wrong, and the IDF can't give half a crap about how many civilians it's killing.

Or you are right, and this would mean the IDF are just too stupid to prevent themselves from killing hundreds of civilians more than the other "terrorists" can.

Only one of these alternatives is right, both being extremely shameful for any kind of armed forces. You choose.

The Sphinx said...

Oh and RT, you might have already seen this, but this is what an LGFer from the Israeli special forces has been talking about, in terms of minimizing civilian deaths (Sadly I couldn't catch the whole conversation):

(Click here and howl)

Red Tulips said...

Sphinx,

It is the 'Palestinians' who purposely go out of their way to prop as many women and children 'Palestinians' as possible next to military targets, using them as cynical human shields. It is disgusting, and a double war crime. As Golda Meir said, "there can only be peace when the Arabs love their children more than they hate Israel's children."

Truer words have not been spoken.

Despite the barbaric/inhuman/repulsive/repugnant/evil tactis of the 'Palestinians' in placing military targets in big population centers on purpose, and of using women and children as 'human shields,' Israeli targeted killing in fact is working, and a recent report shows how 'civilian' deaths are way down. source Israel should be praised for achieving the total impossible, but instead they are castigated.

This is despite the best efforts of the vile terrorists, who have lost all right to call themselves human. Putting women and children purposely in harms way, and aiming at women and children is the most disgusting, inhuman, and barbaric act one can do.

These are the acts of the 'Palestinians' you and am 'champion.' (in fact, you hold them back decades, so you are doing anything but championing them)

In short, you hate basically everyone when you justify 'Palestinian' human butchery. You hate 'Palestinians,' you hate Israelis, and most of all, you hate humanity. You claim to be so 'peaceful,' but in fact your cause is the cause of human butchery and barbarism.

According to you and am, Israelis should basically lay down and die. They are not allowed to defend themselves, and the only "good" Jew is the Holocaust Jew; he who walks softly to the gallows. Anything less than complete suicide is not acceptable to you, am, or LGF Watch.

I have two words in response to that.

Never again.

X said...

red tulips -

You're displaying the same kind of blockheaded logic as Charles Johnson with his "peace = surrender" blather.

Israel does not need to kill civilians in order to win this war. In fact, killing civilians is the surest way to lose it in every conceivable way.

As for putting people in harms way, I expect you're eagerly anticipating the Winograd Commission's report on the 2006 Lebanon war, due out today. We'll see what they have to say about unnecessary and cynical sacrifices, eh?

The Sphinx said...

Really couldn't agree with X more. And while you are literally cheering on the killing of civilians on the Lebanese and Palestinian sides because it's supposedly as low as it can get, while I detest all kinds of civilian casualties, no matter on which side it happens, this shows which one of us is more for human butchery and savagery.

Also it's _you_ who's defending the war crime of collectively punishing 1.5 million people. Some peace advocate *snigger*.

How come that Israel, with its extreme restraint and its angelic forces, manages to do hundredfold damage and butchery that Palestinians do? Because it's their right to defend themselves? Fine, but then who took away the Palestinians' right to defend themselves against relentless and savage destruction?

Or do the Palestinians have to go through a holocaust as well, so that they have legitimacy in resorting to immoral tactics? Because I can't imagine you shedding a tear if the IDF committed real genocide in Gaza and the West Bank - all in the name of protecting humans, right?

One last thing, put quotation marks around the word Palestinian as much as you want, it doesn't make them any less human or eligible to have an own state and live in peace.

ASM said...

RT says:
Since when is Israel required to send its soldiers into hostile enemy territory in order to put a bullet through the brain of a Hamas operative, one on one?

Seems you're purposely dumbing down your argument, Israel has a long record of effectively assassinating many Palestinian militants in a variety of ways. One frequently used method is the helicopter gunship firing a rocket or two at a car (or wheel-chair bound targets like Ahmed Yassin). But seems an apt. building with many civilians (in the middle of the night, practically ensuring many deaths beyond their intended target) is OK with you and perfectly justifiable. Seems thats the typical Israeli mindset.

RT says:
And it places no responsibility on 'Palestinian' terrorists, whose very purpose is to kill as many civilians as possible.

Unfortunately terrorists do not follow any laws nor humane considerations. But Israel is a soverign nation and a signatory to many international laws and conventions that compel it to safeguard the lives and property of the civilans in the territories it occupies, and NOT to blur the line between them and the 'terrorists' it claims its after. Israels disregard for human life and int'l law sinks it to the level of the terrorists themselves, only its terrorism is greater in scale of real civilan casualties.


RT says:
Israel believes in human rights.
You do not.


This is a joke, right? Israel and 'human rights" is a contradiction in terms. Any country that ethnically cleanses another people, evicts them from their lands, bulldozes their homes and properties, massacres their civilians, rains bombs and shells indescriminately upon them or anyone remotely perceived as a threat, cannot believe in human rights. It may believe in 'rights' for its own people, but not for the 'goyim' around them or their rights as set by intl law. In those terms, Israel is a 'blight unto the nations'.

p.s. someone else is posting under 'AM' in other comment areas of this blog, it aint me. So will use ASM from now on.

ASM said...

RT says:
"Despite the barbaric/inhuman/repulsive/repugnant/evil tactis of the 'Palestinians' in placing military targets in big population centers on purpose, and of using women and children as 'human shields,' Israeli targeted killing in fact is working, and a recent report shows how 'civilian' deaths are way down. source Israel should be praised for achieving the total impossible, but instead they are castigated."

Ha ha, what a joke. Linking to one of the most rabid Israeli-firsters on the planet, Alan Dershowitz to give an 'objective' view of the situation. "Targetted killings", uhm yeah, right, they targeted that whole apartment building to get one man.... and 14 children.

X says:
"Israel does not need to kill civilians in order to win this war. In fact, killing civilians is the surest way to lose it in every conceivable way."

I agree, but unfortunately thats not the way they work. Israel’s Indiscriminate Attacks Against Civilians in Lebanon.

Anonymous said...

To be fair, Israel, not only a human rights abuser against the Palestinian population and sometimes Lebanese civilians also treats its own citizens poorly (albeit not as poorly as dropping cluster munitions on civilian areas).

Red Tulips said...

X,

Israel does not need to kill civilians in order to win this war. In fact, killing civilians is the surest way to lose it in every conceivable way.

Interesting. Name a single war ever fought where civilians did not die.

Name one. Oh wait. There has not been one.

Killing civilians is the natural consequence of war. And this is not a war that Israel asked for. It is a war where human butchers are seeking to annhilate the civilians of Israel. Famously, Hassan Nasrallah stated that he wants to slaughter all Jews worldwide. Hamas and fatah similarly have Final Solution goals.

That is the threat Israel faces.

The rest of you claim Israel is 'ethnically cleansing' people. How exactly did they do that one? Last time I checked, they unilaterally withdrew from Gaza, and are seeking to withdraw from Judea and Samaria. The only 'ethnic cleansing' is that of Jews from the State of Israel, at the hands of the IDF.

You claim there is a 'Palestinian' Holocaust. This shows literally zero understanding that words have meaning. How exactly is there a 'Holocaust' when the 'Palestinian' populaton increased tenfold since the 1940's? Some 'Holocaust'! Then you cite Human Rights Watch - founded by George Soros, a noted antiZionist Jew hating Jew, as "proof" that somehow Israel is "targetting" civilians.

Sorry, the only civilian targeting is done by Hamas and Hizballah. They purposely use civilians as human shields, and then sob and moan and wail at the 'human rights violation' when civilians die when Israel exercises its right to self defense.

But oh right. Israel has no right to self defense, according to you.

Because in your eyes, the only good Jew is the dead Jew, the Holocaust Jew.

But you are not an antisemite, how dare anyone say so? Antizionism is not antisemitism!

Never again.

The Sphinx said...

No country has the right to defend itself in a manner that involves killing civilians indiscriminately and unnecessarily, committing war crimes on hundreds of thousands of people, and turning an entire region into a huge prison. This is more of terrorism than self defense. But if you think this is the only way to protect the Jewish population (It's not by the way..), then you must live with the fact that you're supporting a criminal government and army.

That you can't grasp this simple difference between self-defense and bloodlusting-aggression is astounding, as well as your confusion of criticism of "Defense" tactics with the wish for all Jews to be dead.

Fanatics..

Red Tulips said...

Sphinx,

Israel uses the most targeted weaponry they can to kill the least numbers of civilians they can. During the war with Hizballah in 2006, they actually dropped leaflets in advance, telling civilians to flee so they kill as few civilians as possible.

The organization you, Hizballah, was shooting civilians in Lebanon as they tried to flee.

This is the organization that is your pride and joy. You support a barbaric organization whose very goal is Final Solution, and who kills Lebanese civilians. Purposely.

Somehow to you the fact that Hizballah purposely hid behind women and children - thereby guaranteeing women and children will die when Israel merely sought to defend its borders from rocket/missile attacks - escapes you. You do not care. Somehow to you it is irrelevant, and Hizballah deserves praise for defending the Muslims from the eeeeeeeevil Zionists!

Then there is Hamas - an organization that throws Fatah members off buildings and which is now actively attacking the Egyptian military. An organization which makes life in Gaza a living hell for 'Palestinians.'

But oh right, they are so great! They are fighting the eeeeeeeeevil Zionists, and so their actions (AGAINST FELLOW ARABS) is totally justified. Right.

Then there is Israel, a nation that goes out of its way to kill as few civilians as possible, but cannot accomplish the goal of killing no civilians, because that goal is simply impossible. But the IDF would kill not a single person - not one - if Hamas/Fatah/Hizballah gave up their Final Solution goal and simply accepted the state of Israel. Not one person then.

You want 'peace'? Stop blaming the victim and start blaming those who seek Final Solution. Doing anything less = furthering war.

You, Sphinx, are a disgusting warmonger. You want peace? No, you do not. You want pieces of Jews. Because again you fail to recognize that Israel has a legitimate right to defend itself from those seeking the Final Solution of Jews worldwide. And your citation of Gush Shalom, an antizionist organization whose goal is Israel's total capitulation and nothing less, is, shall we say, hardly convincing of anything.

Tex Taylor said...

Red Tulips,

You know these Palestinians are wonderful parents and innocent bystanders as they drape their babies with suicide belts and model AK-47 rifles. I mean, it doesn't get any more cute than that.

Sadly, people like the American loathing, Israel hating Sphinx and AM/AMS don't recognize this guarantees another generation of Jew haters and more Palestinian bloodshed in retaliation.

If "The Sphinx" and his comrades in arms were really concerned with innocent Palestinian casualties, you would think they could find the time to occasionally condemn Hamas and Hezballah killing Jews on buses, in pizzerias, at weddings, or attending synagogues.

And I note that the suicide bombers don't even need to be chasing Israeli terrorists or Israeli military while doing so. Any Jew will do, young or old, male or female, mom and baby, grandma or grandpa, you name it.

The Sphinx said...

Of all people who could have pathetically accused me of being a warmonger, it just had to be that person who was cheering on Israel bombing out Lebanese cities, whether Hezbollah were present or not (such as in the North of Lebanon), and praises Israel for committing war crimes on Gaza.

The same person who has admitted days ago that I don't hate Jews and am a peaceful person, comes today and says I'm lusting for war and crave dead Jews, as if I'm some kind of second Hitler.

Only one word: Schizophrenia.

Red Tulips said...

Sphinx,

I realized, when you would not let me respond to your disgusting and repulsive libel about Israel 'starving' Gazans, that you are nothing but a hate monger who pretends to be peaceful (pieces of Jews). That is what it took, so thank you for that. Thank you for opening my eyes.

Thank you also for posting a piece on your website about a Holocaust survivor who basically claims (in not so many words) that Israel is the next Nazi Germany. You quote from an openly antisemitic hate site, Sabbah's blog. Thank you for that as well. Because it shows exactly who you are as a person.

Thank you for opening my eyes.

You are no better than qrswave, who openly cheers Jew murder. You are, if anything, worse. Because you couch your support in PC language that fools many people. Me included, for years. She at least had the guts to admit her open Jew hatred.

The same person who has admitted days ago that I don't hate Jews and am a peaceful person, comes today and says I'm lusting for war and crave dead Jews, as if I'm some kind of second Hitler.

No, Sphinx. You are not 'the next Hitler.' You are merely a supporter of the next Hitler. You merely support others whose goal is Jew annhilation.

You are not brave enough to admit this, but it is true.

You claim to be believe in peace, but you do not. You only believe in pieces of Jews.

In response to the obvious truth, that all Lebanese and 'Palestinian' death is the fault of Hamas/Fatah/Hizballah, you obscure the obvious truth yet again, and go back to a tired cliche. Israel is supposedly committing 'war crimes.'

I will grant this to someone who was the intellectual grandfather of your faux-intellect. Edward Said, for all his Jew hate, for all his Arafat support, at least was more academic and creative when he lied about Israel.

If you are going to lie, if you are going to obfuscate, at least be interesting about it.

Is that too much to ask?

Red Tulips said...

So to sum up: it took Sphinx posting a vomit-inducing post on his blog about a Holocaust survivor for me to realize...

I am only fooling myself if I say he is not a Jew hater.

Dealer said...

Only one word: Schizophrenia.

I'd have plumped for 'retard'

Dealer said...

Israel uses the most targeted weaponry they can to kill the least numbers of civilians they can. During the war with Hizballah in 2006, they actually dropped leaflets in advance, telling civilians to flee so they kill as few civilians as possible.

As was pointed out at the time, the Israelis may have done this but it was a worthless gesture because they'd destroyed the roads, bridges and most of the vehicles in earlier attacks.

PS Cluster munitions are not precise targeted weapons, they are designed to be used on the battlefield not in urban areas.

The Sphinx said...

My posts induce you to vomit? Great, because this is based on mutuality.

Look, if you're going to keep screaming like a freaking banshee and spewing out lie after lie about me, fine. Just please don't complain when you get called "Retard"·

As a final argument to show you how completely rubbish your logic is:
You say I want dead Jews and another Holocaust (LOL btw..), because I criticize the antics of the Israeli government. Well by YOUR logic then, you want all Egyptians dead and would love nothing more than a mushroom cloud over Cairo because you hate our current government (as I do).

Think about your credibility once in a while.
Anyway, as a great person once said: Don't feed the troll. So welcome to my ignore list.